Phiadelphia's Revitalization (Philadelphia, Washington, Franklin: 2014, tile, maintenance)

[DavePa]

Originally Posted by cpomp

Its not a matter of enjoyment, its a matter of improving the QOL and urban environment. Its unfortunate that you are under the mindset that development and planning should cater to the automobile and not the pedestrian or resident. (you're showing your age with that mindset too).

Capping a whole expressway TAKES YEARS and $'s. I agree can be worth it. BUT JUST ADDING MORE GREEN (over just adding some trees). CAN HAVE A QUICK AND VIBRANT EFFECT IN NEIGHBORHOODS. True wider sidewalk streets can more easily gain it and PHILLY STILL HAS SIDWALKS YOU CAN ADD MORE GREEN.

Philly should STRONGLY push for builders of NEW INFILL to ADD GREEN-SPACE. Keep William Penn's "Green Countrie Towne" back in force.

Originally Posted by car0401

On the topic of set back I think it would be nice if we had some setback in the future, however 1600 brandywine has too much setback. It looks to be about 23ish feet deep which is far too much and the set back seems to be featureless. Something along the lines of the 2000 block of spruce has a little setback which makes room for pots and gives the house a little breathing space while still feeling urban.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9485...7i13312!8i6656

I also think that fenced albeit small setback could be good as long as the space is utilized and incorporates features like interesting fencing and small landscaping. Heres an example from bed-stuy

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6843...7i13312!8i6656

I think these more urban setbacks that incorporate features of the houses adds to the feel of neighborhoods and makes them more comfortable but integrated.

It's no news Philly is Row-home Central. But much of the city ignores adding green-space but for trees on the sidewalk. A few planters surely help. But blocks of totally New Infill seem to just maintain new housing to the sidewalk and re-stored standard rows seem to never realize there is something simple that can have a big effect at the sidewalk level.

Anyone who visits a city were set-backs were standard for even its oldest housing and adding some green-frontage? Knows the effect it can have. Especially if it has older soaring trees to complement it. Much of older Philly outside of the Colonial areas we love seems to not realize that many blocks can still ADD MORE GREEN-FRONTAGE. WITH A EFFECT of those built that way.

I understand if one sees the 1600 block of Brandywine is a bit PLAIN in the green-frontage and the infill was actually built many feet back from where the former was.
But Professional landscaping could add much much more to such a space too.

I did post the next block behind 1600 Brandywine with identical infill. It is a example of adding more green without building the new infill further in. The difference is ALREADY HAVING A WIDER SIDEWALK to change.

* Next Block from 1600 Brandywine. Wider sidewalk used to add green-frontage.
(1600 Green St Philly)

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9642...7i13312!8i6656

The housing on both sides, have the homes same distance from the curb. New side merely took some of the sidewalk for green-space. I agree it is plainer then it could be in landscaping. But still the effect is still there in walking by it and a greener city is clearly the effect.
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These examples offer examples of professional landscaping. YES ANOTHER CITY below. But still the EFFECT OF GREEN and SCOPE of a EXTRA-PROFFESIONAL effect.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9210...7i13312!8i6656

^^^ Notice ROWS JUST AHEAD ABOVE.... Same size sidewalk but only a LESS-GREEN ADDED in front.

Same rows less green vs. Much added green in SAME SIDEWALK SPACE. SIDE BY SIDE ----> BIG Difference.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9211...7i13312!8i6656

Below - same view LOVE the new infill example here built 2007 March view showing here in 2009 one side rows on left limited green. Right of alley white building is a example of New CLASSIC-LOOK infill I LOVE. The professional landscaping stands out and LARGE tress planted. Home was added in 2007.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9212...7i13312!8i6656

Across the street too has some NEW INFILL I LOVE with old and landscaped.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9208...7i13312!8i6656

Looking down the street you can't replace or UNDER-ESTIMATE the effect GREEN CAN HAVE. A large tree-canopy is PRICELESS to an Urban setting.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9208...7i13312!8i6656

* Philly still has blocks WITH SIDEWALKS AS WIDE AS as 1600 Green St. The Chicago block above HAS NO WIDER A SIDEWALK either. But the difference in THE SCOPE OF GREEN THAT CAN BE ADDED AND ITS EFFECT.

My point is ----> Philly can still DO NEW INFILL WITH A COUPLE FEET SETBACKS FOR GREEN. Or UTILIZE A SIDEWALK SPACE BETTER IN ADDING GREEN. ESPECIALLY IF MORE WIDER THEN MOST. But ALL can add MORE the better.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by MB1562

I can tell you as someone who walks across the VSE every single day after work, it is far from a pleasant experience. Cpomp is right in that capping it would go a long ways. It basically cut off Chinatown from the northern section and it is still a mostly barren, industrial wasteland up there.

West of Broad St, in Spring Garden, or if one calls it Lower Spring Garden or Franklintown, it's not nearly as bad. Been walking across it for years.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by car0401

Can we please get back on track. This thread is for the discussion of revitalization in neighborhoods and the future of the city. Unless we are talking about public transportation in relation to how it revitalizes neighborhoods or the vine street expressway on how it stagnated the growth of Poplar and Callowhill then it should be in a different thread.

Conversations like setbacks on the 1600 block of Brandywine are more like what this thread is focused on. We should be looking at how neighborhoods are being rebuilt and what characteristics we want in them.

Interested to know why you mentioned that block of Brandywine. I live right near it.

[DavePa]

Originally Posted by kyb01

West of Broad St, in Spring Garden, or if one calls it Lower Spring Garden or Franklintown, it's not nearly as bad. Been walking across it for years.

Philly needs to get the I-95 capped first (small portion). Then if its virtues are seen? Consider Vine St expressway a YEARS LONG undertaking to a Decade and much planning. Worth it probably. Likely? If l-95 success is proclaimed? Then it is a possiblity to Vine.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by cpomp

Its not a matter of enjoyment, its a matter of improving the QOL and urban environment. Its unfortunate that you are under the mindset that development and planning should cater to the automobile and not the pedestrian or resident. (you're showing your age with that mindset too).


And people only walk over it when they have to, people don't just take a leisurely stroll over the Vine St Expressway because its not a pleasant experience, and until fairly recently it was pretty much no mans land once you crossed north of it. If that were capped with a new park or some sort of development built on top, that would connect the larger CC area and create so much more foot traffic and development north of the Vine.


Also, there are dozens of advocacy groups still active pushing for a total cap of the highway. And lets not be so simple minded, you don't always get what you ask for, if that were the case Philadelphia would be much better than it currently is. The state doesn't have/ doesn't want to pay the money to cap it, its not a matter or whether the people of Chinatown want it capped or not (and I am sure if you took a poll, it would go in favor of capping).


Clearly we do not agree on most topics, you have a very anti-urbanist, bland, low-rise, strip mall, station wagon mentality. I see walkability, development, high-rises, blending period of architecture, burying highways, new shopping, parks etc.. So I guess agree to disagree, I am just glad you are not on the city planning team.

Since neither you or southbound live in the Philly area now, seems foolish to argue over stuff neither one of you has any direct impact on.

[car0401]

Originally Posted by kyb01

Interested to know why you mentioned that block of Brandywine. I live right near it.

It was brought up in an earlier conversation in this thread but I thought I would expand on the positive effects of setbacks and contrast 1600 Brandywine against other types of setbacks

[DavePa]

Originally Posted by car0401

It was brought up in an earlier conversation in this thread but I thought I would expand on the positive effects of setbacks and contrast 1600 Brandywine against other types of setbacks

Some poster place those on ignore if they question something Philly does or des not do. That I'll leave there.
The IDEA of setbacks for infill in Philly. Only works for them in larger lots of new Rows of Town-homes. Not basic Rows. They acknowledge neighborhoods built later into the Mid-20th century with setbacks as a defense. But see little need to add it with totally new blocks of infill or taking a portion of a sidewalk to add more.

They are fine with a few trees and planters maybe. More is really not understood. Whether that 1600 Brandywine block is too far set-back for someone? Or its added green-frontage too plain? Landscaping especially professionally. Can fix that quick. It is amazing what can be done on urban streets merely on sidewalks. Adding a further setback and really you can enhance it.

Philly has plenty of sidewalks ----> just wide enough to add more unified green-space across a group of similar rows or new infill ones. It's standard for some cities. Like this JUST GRASS without real set-backs.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9427...7i13312!8i6656

Here professional landscaping can do this to a otherwise couple feet set-back and sidewalk. Gaudy and too much to some. It's ADAPTABLE ON A SMALLER SCALE too. Or in new infill that just gates and greens a couple feet of the frontage. But totally changes a cityscape adding trees too.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9239...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9236...fg!2e0!7i13312!

I LOVE THIS INFILL ROWS ----> SO QUAINT EVEN WITH JUST THAT GREEN IN FRONT without the grassy sidewalk is AWESOME. PHILLY COULD DO THIS?
Makes a city block look like a village.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9270...7i13312!8i6656

This in Philly has only the sidewalk used for greens added. Plain but soooo many ways landscape with flowers and planters.

✳ This is IN PHILLY NOW.... BUT UNLIKELY TO CATCH ON IN PHILLY... Only sidewalk changed to add uniform green-space.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9642...7i13312!8i6656

GREENSPACE ADDED takes attention to maintain. But you do get a reprieve in winters ...... But SOME EFFECTS ARE STRIKING IN DENSE CITY BLOCKS. It can take you from ---> Nice to WOW.... in lush greens.

[drro]

Hey Dave buddy, those are some really nice streets in Chicago and Philly you found there. I am never so lucky when street viewing Chicago or Philly, all I usually end up in are the hoods. The first and last link you posted are some parts which really resemble Europe to me: friendly looking buildings and sidewalks. It is really nice to see US cities with a certain reputation still have nice, liveable, walkable parts.

[TheseGoTo11]

Originally Posted by car0401

Meanwhile New York, DC, and Boston are cities where its hard to find an empty lot except in the very worst of neighborhoods.

That's because land is still far more expensive in those three than in Philly.

The benefit though is that you don't have 1,000 foot toothpick condo buildings like those popping up now along Central Park South.

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by kyb01

Since neither you or southbound live in the Philly area now, seems foolish to argue over stuff neither one of you has any direct impact on.

I don't live in the region, but I am still very connected to the Philadelphia area for work, friends, and family. I may likely move back one day, because I don't have a million dollars for a down payment on a condo in Manhattan lol.