Whenever I imagine that Arpaio might see the error of his ways... (Phoenix: fit in, house)

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

Do you believe everything you hear on TV?

Don't be silly. This was not some unsupported allegation. When they cite individuals names, specific dates and crimes, and show court papers and documents with the crimes the persons were convicted of as well as police reports from the incidents they obtained under Freedom of Information requests, I find it rather convincing as any reasonable person would. As for the findings of malfeasance regarding the child abuse investigations, that was not a TV news story but the conclusions of an official investigation.

[CheyDee]

Originally Posted by observer53

They aren't paying the bills for the actions taken by his underlings, either.

That's really irrelevant. My response was to the poster who wrote, "... the embarrassment he brings to our state. He makes Arizona look backward."

[observer53]

Originally Posted by CheyDee

That's really irrelevant. My response was to the poster who wrote, "... the embarrassment he brings to our state. He makes Arizona look backward."

It's not irrelevant, to the extent that the impressions people who live out of state have of him are based on what they hear about him in the national media, where the settlements of wrongful death cases, etc., are usually not found. That said, some out of state people don't approve of his actions, either.

Don't mean to take this thread further off topic. There have been dozens of Arpaio threads. Let's keep this one to the original topic.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Don't be silly. This was not some unsupported allegation. When they cite individuals names, specific dates and crimes, and show court papers and documents they obtained under Freedom of Information requests, I find it rather convincing as any reasonable person would. As for the findings of malfeasance regarding the child abuse investigations, that was not a TV news story but an official investigation.

Let me ask this, of all these investigations and from what I understand there's been buckets full, how many have resulted in any kind of actual charges or, have they just been "breaking news"?

I don't keep up on the Sheriff only because there's way higher placed people who take up what time I want to spend understanding and dealing with the fallout of their decrees.

[CheyDee]

Originally Posted by observer53

It's not irrelevant, to the extent that the impressions people who live out of state have of him are based on what they hear about him in the national media, where the settlements of wrongful death cases, etc., are usually not found. That said, some out of state people don't approve of his actions, either.

Don't mean to take this thread further off topic. There have been dozens of Arpaio threads. Let's keep this one to the original topic.

What out-of-staters seem to know, (based upon what has been said to me), is: "pink underwear", "green bologna", Tent City, hard line on illegals, fearless (in terms of who may or may not like him/his positions), and, most currently, that his posse will help guard around schools. (The latter of which is the topic of this thread.)

Nobody from out of state has ever mentioned costs of any sort to me, therefore, it is indeed irrelevant to those out-of-staters' perceptions.

Of course there are some out of state people who don't approve of his actions. I don't know of anyone in any position anywhere who's stances are universally liked 100%.

[PoppySead]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

Every little bit helps, but how much time does a cop spend doing paperwork?

I'm not so sure every little bit helps. The fact that Joe is in the media for doing things out of the line of normal for a sherif isn't always a good thing. Joe's publicity for the most part stems in part to the fact he does "off the wall" antics. Not because he goes above the call of duty. I think a certain amount of people enjoy the show but his actual work I'm not to sure about. People enjoy the reality t.v. of it all but pink undies only get you so far. What he is doing now with the schools is questionable in it's effect, IMO. Regardless of his actor affiliation.

A lot of mass murderers have no prior criminal record. They could easily plan to join Joe's armed guard and position themselves nicely at a school yard with a gun. I think it might be better for us to start taking a better look at mental health and illness. We don't try to understand it and correct it. These people are ill, not mean. The last three recent shootings could have been avoided if we took mental health seriously in this country. IMO, of course. We need to get rid of the stigma and make it more affordable to receive treatment.

For one Arizona is an unwelcoming state for mental health workers. It's hard to find a job here because insurance companies don't put forth the same coverage for mental health as they do physical health. We should fix that. Maybe we can catch some of these kids before they commit mass murder instead of arming everywhere we go so we can shoot them. It would cost the same.

Sherif Joe might be entertaining but is that really our top requirement for law enforcement? Armed guards in school appeal to people for what reason? Do people really think the mentally ill can't be treated so they need to be shot? The last three incidents had clear warnings of mental health issues before a shooting took place. Why haven't we learned to address that part of the equation?

I'd have more respect for a state that ramped up it's mental health care and put laws in place that allowed easier reporting and treatment of these issues than a state that opted for a possible shoot out at elementary schools. IMO. I'd then know they realized the actual problem. It's not like the cartel is responsible and Joe is just extending his M.O.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by PoppySead

I'm not so sure every little bit helps. The fact that Joe is in the media for doing things out of the line of normal for a sherif isn't always a good thing. Joe's publicity for the most part stems in part to the fact he does "off the wall" antics. Not because he goes above the call of duty. I think a certain amount of people enjoy the show but his actual work I'm not to sure about. People enjoy the reality t.v. of it all but pink undies only get you so far. What he is doing now with the schools is questionable in it's effect, IMO. Regardless of his actor affiliation.

A lot of mass murderers have no prior criminal record. They could easily plan to join Joe's armed guard and position themselves nicely at a school yard with a gun. I think it might be better for us to start taking a better look at mental health and illness. We don't try to understand it and correct it. These people are ill, not mean. The last three recent shootings could have been avoided if we took mental health seriously in this country. IMO, of course. We need to get rid of the stigma and make it more affordable to receive treatment.

For one Arizona is an unwelcoming state for mental health workers. It's hard to find a job here because insurance companies don't put forth the same coverage for mental health as they do physical health. We should fix that. Maybe we can catch some of these kids before they commit mass murder instead of arming everywhere we go so we can shoot them. It would cost the same.

Sherif Joe might be entertaining but is that really our top requirement for law enforcement? Armed guards in school appeal to people for what reason? Do people really think the mentally ill can't be treated so they need to be shot? The last three incidents had clear warnings of mental health issues before a shooting took place. Why haven't we learned to address that part of the equation?

I'd have more respect for a state that ramped up it's mental health care and put laws in place that allowed easier reporting and treatment of these issues than a state that opted for a possible shoot out at elementary schools. IMO. I'd then know they realized the actual problem. It's not like the cartel is responsible and Joe is just extending his M.O.

The only comment I've got is about unstable people joining the posse. It's no different than them joining the regular P.D. as evidenced by the recent CA incident.

[PoppySead]

Originally Posted by jimj

The only comment I've got is about unstable people joining the posse. It's no different than them joining the regular P.D. as evidenced by the recent CA incident.

That's right. The posse doesn't require a long training period either. A lot easier to miss someone with ulterior motives.
Maricopa County Sheriff's Office
Sounds to easy to get a spot in there to me.

Plus, his record for hiring doesn't impress me.
http://www.azcentral.com/community/s...nclick_check=1
Sheriff Joe Arpaio's school posse program confuses school staff, parents
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...es-report.html
Arpaio hired former employee, child-sex criminal, for school "posse"
I don't read this blog but I put a link above from abc15 on the same subject. He had a pedophile in his posse, sent guards to a school who were unaware of them coming, his botched sex cases. I don't really think he's qualified to be involved with elementary kids.

I think instead of closing the door on potentially harmful incidents at elementary schools his latest attempt is just going to open a new door. IMO.

I'd like to see us embracing the mental health issue instead. People are ill who commit these crimes, if a bus driver had a seizure and killed people while passing out at the wheel we wouldn't be hiring armed guards to protect the buses. It makes little sense to me. The action of the posse doesn't address the crimes that happened based on mental illness. IMO.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/07/us/ari...le+Feedfetcher
Reading toward the end of this article you realize he was very ill.
The man in CT was very ill. The theatre shooter was ill.
Your average criminal isn't responsible for school shoot ups. Why send posse there?

[jdahunt]

Sheriff Joe is loved and appreciated around the country by as much as other hate him, its more of a ideology view based on politics.

Phoenix is actually going to have a net positive from this though because of the people he will help attract to the area verses those that hate him that won't want to come.

Those such as me that like him will come and bring our money and buy homes and bring fellow family members who are law abiding, willl in some cases start business's, hire and employ people, help increase the overall tax base for the area....you can be sure that we won't be a net drain on the economy....so how could you not like that.

Phoenix should pay Joe extra money as a recruiter for the state....lol

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by jdahunt

Sheriff Joe is loved and appreciated around the country by as much as other hate him, its more of a ideology view based on politics.

Phoenix is actually going to have a net positive from this though because of the people he will help attract to the area verses those that hate him that won't want to come.

Those such as me that like him will come and bring our money and buy homes and bring fellow family members who are law abiding, willl in some cases start business's, hire and employ people, help increase the overall tax base for the area....you can be sure that we won't be a net drain on the economy....so how could you not like that.

Phoenix should pay Joe extra money as a recruiter for the state....lol

I don't think most people, even illegals, make decisions about whether to move here or not based on Arpaio. The failure to support and improve education in the state is the most serious impediment to quality growth in the future, not some old, publicity hound sheriff.