ASU economists say we'll grow when our leaders stop looking stupid" (2013, felons)

[stevek64]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

There is a subset of students (and growing) that simply won't perform no matter how much you spend on them. Those students that don't care and are coasting.

Exactly.....frame this quote for those who feel money is the answer to everything in education.

But then again, perhaps AZ can take a hint from CA and do more "important" things like this to our education system:

LA Unveils $578 Million School, Costliest In The Nation

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by jdahunt

So you've been saying for years that Arizona will remain a stagnant state not able to grow due to politics all the while the state has been booming as compared to many of the liberal strongholds???

Most states would be happy to have the problems that Arizona has.....all I can say is get out and see what else is going on......there is a reason people are moving to Arizona at a higher rate than most other states....Illinois is seeing a net loss of people...as is California....who is going to be left to pay the bills....nobody which is why taxes are soaring.

From the U.S. Census:

2010 Illinois population: 12,830,632
2013 Illinois population: 12,882,135

[stevek64]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

The red part states the problem! Companies are skipping right over us.

The Census Bureau calculates that the most popular destination is Texas (58,992), a state that is luring California companies. That’s followed by Arizona (49,635), Nevada (40,114), Washington (38,421) and Oregon (34,214)."

We are not #1, but we are #2 in luring population from CA. I wouldn't define that as "skipping right over us" by any means. 58,992 - 49,635 = 9,357 difference.


And does it matter if the companies moving to AZ are from CA? I bet we can get some well educated, hard working, affluent people and businesses, small and large, from other states to make up that "deficit", no?

My feeling/point is CA is not the beginning and end of everything. As long as we gain a population of educated, hard working people from ANY state, that's a good thing.

[Ztonyg]

Originally Posted by stevek64

We are not #1, but we are #2 in luring population from CA. I wouldn't define that as "skipping right over us" by any means. 58,992 - 49,635 = 9,357 difference.


And does it matter if the companies moving to AZ are from CA? I bet we can get some well educated, hard working, affluent people and businesses, small and large, from other states to make up that "deficit", no?

My feeling/point is CA is not the beginning and end of everything. As long as we gain a population of educated, hard working people from ANY state, that's a good thing.

The skipping right over us is in corporate relocation. Companies are not relocating from California to Arizona. They're relocating from California to Texas. Heck, we just lost the US Airways / American Airlines HQ to Texas.

[stevek64]

Originally Posted by Ztonyg

The skipping right over us is in corporate relocation. Companies are not relocating from California to Arizona. They're relocating from California to Texas. Heck, we just lost the US Airways / American Airlines HQ to Texas.

And other companies have set up/are planning to set up a large presence in AZ:

City confirms Apple coming to Mesa, to create 2,000 jobs

State Farm to build Tempe regional headquarters, bring thousands of new jobs - Phoenix Business Journal

New cancer center at Mayo Clinic may mean 1,000 new jobs

"When Mayo Clinic opens its cancer center in 2015, health-care leaders say, people will come from all over the world to receive treatment at the northeast Phoenix facility. The center will offer innovative treatment that’s not available in the Southwest."


C'mon folks......doom and gloom headlines without looking at the whole picture gets old though it does make good press I guess and spewing endless posts on forums like this(like I'm doing!). I think the point is(perhaps should be) companies come and go in all states, just a matter of what the net is and I think AZ is doing pretty good on that front. It's a game of money/cost of business for companies and having a work force that can meet their needs. Or draw in the work force from other states.

Relax people....the sky isn't falling. Enjoy a little sun and see the positive.

[jdahunt]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

The average salary for an Illinois teacher in 2011-12 was $66,614.

Thanks for proving my point.....a entry level is around 30k while a senior teacher is around 100k...exactly what I was saying.


The teaching salary is but a portion of their compensation..most are able to supplement their income with other activities where the law is teachers get first shot at....on top of the rediculous big boost in pre-retirement pay they get...as much at 25%...it is designed to allow them to get a bigger retirement than what they would normally have earned.

Even without all the extra money 66k for 9 months work a year is not bad....not bad at all right.

[Potential_Landlord]

I think there are two key figures to look at in this debate: how is our current AZ net migration and b) how is our net migration in college grads? - If anyone has recent stats it would be great to post here. - Thanks. I read a couple of articles that of all places students in Portland, OR stay local most often (not getting jobs out of the area). But I have no data on ASU net migration data. As mentioned before, our local realtor leaflet by zip code sounded very alarming that migration to AZ has all but faltered. If this is true then there may be something to it that our extremist legislature is causing harm to AZ.

[Potential_Landlord]

Originally Posted by jdahunt

Thanks for proving my point.....a entry level is around 30k while a senior teacher is around 100k...exactly what I was saying.


The teaching salary is but a portion of their compensation..most are able to supplement their income with other activities where the law is teachers get first shot at....on top of the rediculous big boost in pre-retirement pay they get...as much at 25%...it is designed to allow them to get a bigger retirement than what they would normally have earned.

Even without all the extra money 66k for 9 months work a year is not bad....not bad at all right.

I agree throwing money at the problem is not the best solution. More worrisome in AZ is that instead of fostering an open mindset and critical thinking the emphasis seems on indoctrinating traditional values. How are we supposed to get new start up ideas like a Facebook in such a climate? Also, we seem to get a more elitist school system dooming the majority of our young people to at best achieve the same status of their parents, thus dooming the American dream. Not sure how this is elsewhere. I would like to avoid the failures elsewhere but improve on what I see happening here. I read an article that in Detroit in the public transportation system corruption was so big employees missed one in 3 days of work across the board without consequences. I don't want that here. But I want to see lower income families in Arizona achieve better status and education than what is happening right now here.

[chazk14]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

It hardly took the three eco-migos to point this out. I, myself, have commented on numerous occasions how it has turned from a point of pride to a matter of embarrassment to tell people I am from Arizona. It is not coincidence that our economic recovery is being hindered by the perception of this being a right wing nut house.

Compare us to Texas, a state whose population is, in reality, to the right of Arizona. You don't see them passing laws to discriminate against gays. They aren't slasing their school budgets and bankrupting the public education system while passing out government checks to religious schools. UT is a liberal institution of academic renown while ASU is getting known for crime and partying. They are not trying to put guns in every bar and classroom in the state. And they have all but an open-door policy toward Hispanic immigrants.

how is Arizona against hispanic immigrants? If you are referring to illegals say illegals.

[Valley Native]

The problem with us not attracting the reputable businesses & high paying jobs like we should has little or nothing to do with our so called "low funding" of public education. Hell, 50% of the state budget is allocated to schools ... not exactly a low priority as far as spending is concerned! Besides, a growing number of people would rather send their kids to private schools vs. public. I'd be willing to bet money that many executives of these lucrative firms we are trying to attract have enrolled their kids in prestigious private schools anyway ... so I highly doubt they give a rat's rectum about "K through 12" public schools (which a good share of parents/breeders use as free daycare anyway).

One reason we are not getting the business migration like Texas is: our overall focus as a city & state. People still think of Phoenix as some small or mid sized quiet retirement destination instead of the nation's sixth largest city. The economy is overly dependent on seasonal tourism (a.k.a. snowbirds), sunshine, golf, and retirement communities. Our lack of unions, and overall business climate is generally favorable, but it's not enough. Reputable companies, entrepreneurs, and the like don't consider retirement as a benefit to move to the Phoenix area & attract educated & skilled workers.