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These may be minor points, but here is where I feel Vegas beats Phoenix: it's closer to So. Cal (although the traffic there is terrible on weekends); the mountains surrounding Vegas look taller; Vegas isn't as pancake flat as Phoenix is; and summer isn't as long as it is in Phoenix (I wouldn't mind a chillier winter than Phoenix offers.)
Phoenix advantages over Vegas: It has A LOT more water available. I've read Las Vegas will PAY you to rip out your lawn in order to save water... I'm more politically conservative, and Nevada ranks lower than AZ in my political views. AZ would never have elected Sen. Harry Reid.
I agree with some of your points but for the distance between Las Vegas vs Phoenix to So. Cal., that all depends on what part So. Cal you're going to. And what part of Phoenix metro or Las Vegas proper you live in. For example, from Goodyear to San Diego, it's exactly the same distance, take a few minutes here and there without traffic. However, going to San Diego from Las Vegas exposes one to much more pontential traffic headaches(winding close to LA, going south on 215S and I-5 for long spell can get ugly in traffic at any time of the day). In contrast, from Phoenix metro to San Diego it's a straight shot on I-8 and I've found it much less cluttered, even during rush hour. Las Vegas to LA, Disneyland, etc is indeed about an hour shorter than Phoenix to LA, not considering traffic of course.
No matter the city, not really a huge difference in my book Las Vegas vs Phoenix to So. Cal., +/1 an hour or a draw.
The normal advantage of Phoenix is a warmer winter offset by a hotter and wetter summer. I personally give the climate battle to LV though not by much. I don't like cool winters but Phoenix summers are even worse than the numbers suggest.
Phoenix has a better job market for techies and such. Las Vegas is better for service workers or standard skills.
Phoenix is bigger and much more difficult to get around.
There are many places in Las Vegas that will go head to head with the best of Scottsdale.
Video Poker Pubs are in fact one of the things that Las Vegas should feature. Most provide quite good food at a reasonable price and provide a neighborhood gathering place. And you don't have to gamble. We virtually never do. Great place for watching a game.
The whole vib of Las Vegas is younger and more dynamic.
The family view is virtually the same. You simply need to go where families go which is not on the strip.
The good schools in LV are interchangeable with the good schools in the Valley of the Sun.
The normal advantage of Phoenix is a warmer winter offset by a hotter and wetter summer. I personally give the climate battle to LV though not by much. I don't like cool winters but Phoenix summers are even worse than the numbers suggest.
Phoenix has a better job market for techies and such. Las Vegas is better for service workers or standard skills.
Phoenix is bigger and much more difficult to get around.
There are many places in Las Vegas that will go head to head with the best of Scottsdale.
Video Poker Pubs are in fact one of the things that Las Vegas should feature. Most provide quite good food at a reasonable price and provide a neighborhood gathering place. And you don't have to gamble. We virtually never do. Great place for watching a game.
The whole vib of Las Vegas is younger and more dynamic.
The family view is virtually the same. You simply need to go where families go which is not on the strip.
The good schools in LV are interchangeable with the good schools in the Valley of the Sun.
I think you bring up some good points. However, I think you also have some distortions yourself of the Phoenix area. For example, I agree with you on the Phoenix metro being much bigger. However, that fact alone doesn't make it "much more difficult to get around". Most of the roads are designed in a Ave/St grid that's very logical and well laid out and the highway system with all the loops are very well designed and in excellent condition. And for those of us who live in one area of the Phoenix metro, most have just about one of everything/anything convenience wise close by that we usually don't need to venture far to take in, just like people who live in the Las Vegas suburbs don't always have to venture to the strip for their fill of whatever(ie you have your video poker pubs).
Personally, we enjoy both cities and appreciate what each has to offer.
No matter the city, not really a huge difference in my book Las Vegas vs Phoenix to So. Cal., +/1 an hour or a draw.
Being a little nit-picky I put the numbers more like + 1.5 hours for phx.
But as you say, the variance isn't drastic. But what is drastic, imo, is how much more "connected" Las Vegas is to LA vs. PHX. It is much more immersed in SoCal... be it transplants or visitors. Phoenix is an afterthought for most Southern Californians. Forgotten almost aside from maybe some sports teams battling each-other. Even living here I often forget that hey I'm really only a little more than a 1/2 days drive away. But it feels more distant in a way...LV flashier and just more in-touch with So-Cal.
Being a little nit-picky I put the numbers more like + 1.5 hours for phx.
But as you say, the variance isn't drastic. But what is drastic, imo, is how much more "connected" Las Vegas is to LA vs. PHX. It is much more immersed in SoCal... be it transplants or visitors. Phoenix is an afterthought for most Southern Californians. Forgotten almost aside from maybe some sports teams battling each-other. It feels more distant in a way...flashier and just more in-touch with So-Cal.
Here is one I do not know. Las Vegas is actually supplied out of LA. The stores, the gas, the construction materials often come from LA. And in some cases it reverses. LV is the warehouse that provides goods to LA.
I don't think that goes on with Phoenix but I really don't know. Where are the big warehouses for Phoenix supermarkets? I am curious.
Here is one I do not know. Las Vegas is actually supplied out of LA. The stores, the gas, the construction materials often come from LA. And in some cases it reverses. LV is the warehouse that provides goods to LA.
I don't think that goes on with Phoenix but I really don't know. Where are the big warehouses for Phoenix supermarkets? I am curious.
Being on the 10 I'd guess our supply chain goes down to Tucson and over to parts of West Texas like El Paso and beyond. This is just a guess mind you... but the 10 is a big-time interstate and I'd say it's more a southern route out of LA gets more commercial traffic in the winter months then than going through Flagstaff and parts north with more inclement weather.
But I know we are considered a major transportation hub with a lot of warehouses. A lot of goods from SoCal and the overseas ports I'm sure find their way on trucks headed east into Phoenix and beyond. There is a reason we have, what I consider, extremely competitive grocery store food prices. Milk is regularly less than $2 a gallon here which is unheard of in CA.
Basically, a lot of goods headed east pass through Phoenix. The warehouses are right here in the Valley, I think.
But what is drastic, imo, is how much more "connected" Las Vegas is to LA vs. PHX. It is much more immersed in SoCal... be it transplants or visitors. Phoenix is an afterthought for most Southern Californians. Forgotten almost aside from maybe some sports teams battling each-other. Even living here I often forget that hey I'm really only a little more than a 1/2 days drive away. But it feels more distant in a way...LV flashier and just more in-touch with So-Cal.
Not really. We are loaded with CA transplants here, many from SoCal:
"When looking at who's coming into Arizona and from where, California is the highest contributor, with 9 percent of Arizona's 2012 population coming from The Golden State. Illinois (4 percent) and New York (3 percent) are other big contributors."
And don't forget lots of California's are also flocking to TX which is the #1 state they're fleeing too. Here's some other interesting stats that might surprise you:
"The Census Bureau calculates that the most popular destination is Texas (58,992), a state that is luring California companies. That’s followed by Arizona (49,635), Nevada (40,114), Washington (38,421) and Oregon (34,214)."
Most of these Arizona transplants I'm sure are ending up in the valley. Seems every other person I've met is from CA.
I think it's all about jobs in the end and escaping some not so pleasant things in California(crowding, traffic, high cost of living, taxes, etc etc).
Being a little nit-picky I put the numbers more like + 1.5 hours for phx.
But as you say, the variance isn't drastic. But what is drastic, imo, is how much more "connected" Las Vegas is to LA vs. PHX. It is much more immersed in SoCal... be it transplants or visitors. Phoenix is an afterthought for most Southern Californians. Forgotten almost aside from maybe some sports teams battling each-other. Even living here I often forget that hey I'm really only a little more than a 1/2 days drive away. But it feels more distant in a way...LV flashier and just more in-touch with So-Cal.
I agree with that. Las Vegas is like East California ...
"When looking at who's coming into Arizona and from where, California is the highest contributor, with 9 percent of Arizona's 2012 population coming from The Golden State. Illinois (4 percent) and New York (3 percent) are other big contributors."
And don't forget lots of California's are also flocking to TX which is the #1 state they're fleeing too. Here's some other interesting stats that might surprise you:
"The Census Bureau calculates that the most popular destination is Texas (58,992), a state that is luring California companies. That’s followed by Arizona (49,635), Nevada (40,114), Washington (38,421) and Oregon (34,214)."
Most of these Arizona transplants I'm sure are ending up in the valley. Seems every other person I've met is from CA.
I think it's all about jobs in the end and escaping some not so pleasant things in California(crowding, traffic, high cost of living, taxes, etc etc).
not that Californians don't move to PHX, they definitely do, but culturally Vegas is more connected to SoCal. people moving to PHX from CA might be more likely to adapt to AZ whereas those in Vegas are probably waiting to get to CA in some ways, Vegas wants to be like CA. PHX wants to be like PHX.
My impression of PHX overall is its what a new settlement on the moon would look like its like the void left from people leaving Michigan, Ohio, Illinois (Where I've from and I've seen so many IL and other midwestern license plates here its hilarious and way more than I ever do in CA, and I ahve not seen any CA plates here yet besdies mine) but anyway its like this place is growing as that new moon settlement as people filter out of those areas and try to build a more 'ideal' civilization...but, its still the moon. So everyone is adapting to living on the moon.
That there is culvers here and I kinda figured I'd see some chicago themed restaurants right away is not a huge suprise, it is kind of nice in that it has touches of home for me. Eating at Culvers was nice last night (a WI chain) they don't have them in CA.
I do need to think on Vegas more seriously in that it would save me money from a tax perspective and could be socially rewarding in ways...always something to do where it would not feel awkward to be single (at least I think).
for me its not so much that it is closer to CA but that it is closer to some of the more northerly parts of the West, its a good hub to visit lots of central places. PHX is not bad though either, Vegas has a slight edge there in my mind while PHX is closer to some places I might like to visit.
As for people who argue that LA or whatever city is just as bad as Vegas...its just not true. In terms of being exposed to certain things, most people in CA do not live in Los Angeles but even still, I don't run into the type of 'in your face' kinds of things in LA that I do in Vegas.
The type of stuff on the strip doesn't bother me too much though (it would if I had kids, probably) what bothers me more is just that seedy side of things NOT on the strip lol. Especially when it comes to temporary housing... that could be a real barrier in Las Vegas if most of the monthly rentals are geared more toward a certain element.
Being on the 10 I'd guess our supply chain goes down to Tucson and over to parts of West Texas like El Paso and beyond. This is just a guess mind you... but the 10 is a big-time interstate and I'd say it's more a southern route out of LA gets more commercial traffic in the winter months then than going through Flagstaff and parts north with more inclement weather.
But I know we are considered a major transportation hub with a lot of warehouses. A lot of goods from SoCal and the overseas ports I'm sure find their way on trucks headed east into Phoenix and beyond. There is a reason we have, what I consider, extremely competitive grocery store food prices. Milk is regularly less than $2 a gallon here which is unheard of in CA.
Basically, a lot of goods headed east pass through Phoenix. The warehouses are right here in the Valley, I think.
This is all correct. Phoenix Metro is actually a major transportation and warehousing hub for a variety of industries. I work for a large grocery retailer that operates in 11 states and we have three warehouses to get product to our stores, one of which is in Glendale. Just about every other grocer who has more than a few stores in the valley has a warehouse in town. Besides that, many nationwide trucking companies have terminals here, and most companies with a national distribution footprint have some type of warehouse operation here. Las Vegas has it's share as well, but it isn't near what Phoenix is. LA is generally regarded as the largest hub in the west, owing mostly to the ports.
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For example, I agree with you on the Phoenix metro being much bigger. However, that fact alone doesn't make it "much more difficult to get around". Most of the roads are designed in a Ave/St grid that's very logical and well laid out and the highway system with all the loops are very well designed and in excellent condition. And for those of us who live in one area of the Phoenix metro, most have just about one of everything/anything convenience wise close by that we usually don't need to venture far to take in, just like people who live in the Las Vegas suburbs don't always have to venture to the strip for their fill of whatever(ie you have your video poker pubs).
