Satanist to hold prayer in Phoenix (landlord, vs., murders)

[BIG CATS]

Originally Posted by SageCats

They're not atheists. Atheism is the absence of belief. These people believe in something so they're not atheists.

Atheists are technically secular humanists.

Either way theyre all a bunch of weirdos who will do anything to be in the spotlight for their 5 minutes of fame. "Ooh, look at us, look at us! We hate the Bible and we're proud of it! Check out my upside down cross necklace, black lipstick, and my Anton LaVey tattoo! Grrrrrr!"

[Arizona Mike]

Originally Posted by SageCats

They're not atheists. Atheism is the absence of belief. These people believe in something so they're not atheists.

The absence of belief in anything in nihilism. The absence of belief in a god or gods is atheism. By their own statements to the press, the Satanist group does not believe in God or Satan, they just use Satan as a symbol for their own disbelief, so yes, they are atheists. This is just an atheist performance art piece, as was the attempt to create a statue of Satan at the courthouse in Oklahoma, and as such, should not be considered a prayer.

By Supreme Court decision, local government groups are allowed to invite people for prayers to open a meeting. They are not required to serve as an open forum for any religious group, nor any group of malcontents who declare that their beliefs are a religion. It is unlikely that the Phoenix City Council would invite the Westboro Baptist Church, ISIS, or the white separatist Christian Identity movement to deliver the invocation, so they are not required to invite a hate group whose purpose is to mock the beliefs of another religion. Claiming a right to say a prayer to other atheist flippant beliefs such as flying spaghetti monsters, Cthulhu, etc. is also not required.

Allowing a denomination to offer a prayer at a civic meeting, funeral, convention, etc., does not constitute an establishment of religion under the First Amendment, per SCOTUS, so that is not an issue.

To the idea that if they won't allow a specific philosophy to spout their beliefs, they can't or shouldn't allow any, no. The best approach would be the proposed one, that council members may individually invite members of religions to offer an opening prayer. If a council member wants to invite a Satanist, an ISIS member, or anyone else to offer a prayer and is willing to suffer the consequences during the next election, he or she will be free to do so.

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

Atheists are technically secular humanists.

Either way theyre all a bunch of weirdos who will do anything to be in the spotlight for their 5 minutes of fame. "Ooh, look at us, look at us! We hate the Bible and we're proud of it! Check out my upside down cross necklace, black lipstick, and my Anton LaVey tattoo! Grrrrrr!"

How are they any different than the Christians taking the spotlight that feel the need to say a prayer at a municipal meeting?

"Ooh, look at us, look at us! We love the bible and we're proud of it! Check out my cross necklace, moral superiority, and my Jesus tattoo! Grrrrrr!"

[ElleTea]

Originally Posted by DetroitN8V

How are they any different than the Christians taking the spotlight that feel the need to say a prayer at a municipal meeting?

"Ooh, look at us, look at us! We love the bible and we're proud of it! Check out my cross necklace, moral superiority, and my Jesus tattoo! Grrrrrr!"

I was going to say something similar LOL Why are they weirdos? Because they believe differently?


I heard they are going to try to hurry up and change the rules about allowing prayer before they can do it. Seems a bit prejudiced to me. You can pray all you want as long as you pray their way. Honestly I don't think prayer belongs in those meeting, period. I don't care what you believe.

[RubyJune]

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

Atheists are technically secular humanists.

Either way theyre all a bunch of weirdos who will do anything to be in the spotlight for their 5 minutes of fame. "Ooh, look at us, look at us! We hate the Bible and we're proud of it! Check out my upside down cross necklace, black lipstick, and my Anton LaVey tattoo! Grrrrrr!"

I think you'd be surprised how many people belong to Church of Satan. It's not just goths. There is a plenty of logic behind many of their beliefs, but due to the stigma, most won't ever tell you that is where their affiliation lies.

Originally Posted by DetroitN8V

How are they any different than the Christians taking the spotlight that feel the need to say a prayer at a municipal meeting?

"Ooh, look at us, look at us! We love the bible and we're proud of it! Check out my cross necklace, moral superiority, and my Jesus tattoo! Grrrrrr!"

[Banjo71]

Originally Posted by Bondurant

It's my understanding that the group in question is pushing this simply to expose the hypocrisy of the situation. Personally, I think prayer should be removed from public meetings. It does not offend me but it opens up a can of worms like this. The prayer needs to be open to all or done away with at the meetings.

Just as the proponents of legalizing male-male marriage or female-female marriage seek the ultimate goal of dismantling state recognition of marriage for everyone ("Get government out of the marriage business!" they cry), the ultimate objective here is to destruct, to do away with invocation before city council meetings.

The whole point of invocation before meetings, since the founding of our country, was to ask God to bless the work of the public servants. There is no point in asking Satan to "bless" your work, or to ask one's "higher self" to bless one's own work. This is how you keep the tradition of invocation without allowing the nonsense.

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by Banjo71

Just as the proponents of legalizing male-male marriage or female-female marriage seek the ultimate goal of dismantling state recognition of marriage for everyone ("Get government out of the marriage business!" they cry), the ultimate objective here is to destruct, to do away with invocation before city council meetings.

The whole point of invocation before meetings, since the founding of our country, was to ask God to bless the work of the public servants. There is no point in asking Satan to "bless" your work, or to ask one's "higher self" to bless one's own work. This is how you keep the tradition of invocation without allowing the nonsense.

Of course the goal is to do away with the silly invocation that has absolutely no place in a public setting. In order to do that, one most expose the absurdity of the whole thing. I say, job well done to the Satanists.

[Luke9686]

Originally Posted by SageCats

Correct. They aren't about sacrificing babies or animals ("- Do not harm little children.
- Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food. ") like many people tend to think.
They are about following no one but yourself.
Church of Satan - ReligionFacts
In fact some of their beliefs about individuality align with Libertarian principles.

That's what I was thinking when reading the response two posts above yours. They basically described a Libertarian.

[Heath V]

Good I hope they get blocked.

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by Heath V

Good I hope they get blocked.

Why?