Scottsdale and the light rail (Phoenix, Mesa: tax, live in, price)

[newtoaz20172]

It is classism because Scottsdale said no.

Got it.

The barrier of entry to Scottsdale is a car or an uber. If people want to visit, they're more than happy to. People here don't want lightrail.

It's the city and its residents decision how their money is spent.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by Bondurant

So, the City of Scottsdale should ignore it's residents and tax payers and stick them with years of construction and expenses to build a rail system because you want it?

Scottsdale rejected rail transit in a 1997 city referendum. In 2004, however, Scottsdale voters joined with most of Maricopa County in approving Proposition 400, which funds a mix of rail, bus, and road projects.

Since the results have been mixed and Scottsdale voters have not cast a ballot on rail transit, by itself or as part of a package, for 15 years, it's not clear that Scottsdale would be ignoring its residents and taxpayers by proceeding with light rail. If the city council refers a measure to the ballot and the voters reject it, so be it, but without another election, it's hard to say where public opinion stands.

[Sno0909]

The number of Scottsdale residents that would willfully ride a light rail is probably infinitely small. So if they aren't going to use it, why would they vote to have it in their city? Doesn't make sense.

[KurtAZ]

Originally Posted by newtoaz20172

As someone in the DC Ranch/Greyhawk (85255) area:

No.

These ideas always start egalitarian: *everyone* deserves equal access to areas. As someone from the Midwest, I've seen 3 times in my life bussing expanded, nice malls would start to get in less-than-attractive clientele, crime creeps up, people stop going, and places close. If you don't think Fashion Square would attract people who would otherwise never go there, think again.

So yes, we do not want 'light rail' connecting Scottsdale to Phoenix. I could see light rail between Scottsdale, maybe take some of the strain off Scottsdale Rd, but Phoenix already stopped luxury high rises on Scottsdale RD, and Scottsdale developing on McDowell Mountains for the most part.

Scottsdale is doing just fine without light rail connecting it. If your argument is 'it's the center of Arizona', then get in a car and drive here. There is enough monied interests here to stop any 'light rail' discussion cold in its tracks.

Actually...that was a Scottsdale City referendum years ago where we all voted to permanently protect the McDowell Sonoran Preserve cause we didn't want a bunch of houses cluttering up our mountains. You are welcome.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Sno0909

The number of Scottsdale residents that would willfully ride a light rail is probably infinitely small. So if they aren't going to use it, why would they vote to have it in their city? Doesn't make sense.

The argument is that a light rail connection into Scottsdale from central Phoenix & Tempe would be a benefit for commuters, especially into Old Town. My argument is that light rail is very costly, it takes years of street construction, then the end result is usually reduced traffic lanes which cause more congestion and don't benefit drivers. Besides, I've come to the realization that more light rail lines into the suburbs aren't very sensible. Tempe would be the exception since it's an inner ring suburb & fairly dense ... however, the other suburbs are generally car centric, and light rail ridership would be noticeably lower compared to what it is in central Phoenix & Tempe.

[Sno0909]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

The argument is that a light rail connection into Scottsdale from central Phoenix & Tempe would be a benefit for commuters, especially into Old Town. My argument is that light rail is very costly, it takes years of street construction, then the end result is usually reduced traffic lanes which cause more congestion and don't benefit drivers. Besides, I've come to the realization that more light rail lines into the suburbs aren't very sensible. Tempe would be the exception since it's an inner ring suburb & fairly dense ... however, the other suburbs are generally car centric, and light rail ridership would be noticeably lower compared to what it is in central Phoenix & Tempe.

I understand what the argument is. I understand it would "maybe" benefit people coming into Scottsdale. What I'm saying is: as a Scottsdale resident, why would I vote for this? It would not benefit me.

[fluffythewondercat]

Originally Posted by Sno0909

I understand what the argument is. I understand it would "maybe" benefit people coming into Scottsdale. What I'm saying is: as a Scottsdale resident, why would I vote for this? It would not benefit me.

I can't even think of an indirect benefit to you and me. Scottsdale already spends bed tax monies to promote tourism, but those expenditures pale in comparison to an estimated $500 million price tag for light rail, for which city residents would be on the hook with "possibly" some federal matching funds.

Light rail is a blight on the landscape and would eliminate much-needed traffic lanes. I see it as a lose-lose for Scottsdale.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Sno0909

I understand what the argument is. I understand it would "maybe" benefit people coming into Scottsdale. What I'm saying is: as a Scottsdale resident, why would I vote for this? It would not benefit me.

Maybe you misunderstood. Generally speaking, I agree with Scottsdale's rejection of light rail, and it has nothing to do with "classism" or being snobbish. It's because of the enormous cost. The only benefit I could possibly see would be for a light rail connection coming up from Tempe into Old Town. I also think perhaps a streetcar system in Old Town would get the ridership, and it would be less costly ... but if Scottsdale doesn't want to pay for these things, then they shouldn't be forced to.

Something that the liberals often promote as "beneficial" or "for the public good" certainly doesn't benefit everybody. Some of the current proposed light rail extensions would go into suburban areas, and I believe this seriously needs to be reconsidered. Most suburbs are vehicle oriented, and light rail would serve only a limited portion of the population in the suburban areas (exception being Tempe). Rail transit needs to be concentrated on the highest demand areas, which is currently central Phoenix & Tempe, and perhaps the west & south sides of Phoenix.

[cjseliga]

Originally Posted by newtoaz20172

The barrier of entry to Scottsdale is a car or an uber.

Aren't there a ton of service workers that work in Scottsdale, but live in Phoenix who take the bus to work? So maybe the barrier of entry to Scottsdale is car, uber or bus!

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by cjseliga

Aren't there a ton of service workers that work in Scottsdale, but live in Phoenix who take the bus to work? So maybe the barrier of entry to Scottsdale is car, uber or bus!

If only Scottsdale supported bus service at the same level as its neighbors. Unfortunately that's not the case. Look at Valley Metro schedules for the buses on McDowell, Thomas, Indian School, and Camelback. About half of the buses on these routes turn around in Arcadia rather than continuing into Scottsdale because Scottsdale doesn't fund as high a frequency of bus service as Phoenix. Some of the Scottsdale residents in this thread seem content with that situation as a barrier to entry to their city, but it ultimately hurts Scottsdale's ability to draw the labor it needs to the many businesses and offices within its boundaries. Of course, light rail would be better for handling high ridership routes, but absent that development, improved bus service would be a helpful step towards enhanced regional cooperation on transit.