Scottsdale and the light rail (Phoenix, Mesa: apartment, hotels, to buy)

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by wase4711

the majority of people in Scottsdale don't want it, so they shouldn't be forced into paying for it

I don't think anyone in this thread is advocating forcing anyone to do anything. What's not confirmed, however, is the statement that "the majority of people in Scottdale don't want it." As mentioned earlier in this thread, Scottsdale voters have had not voted on any sort of transit proposition since 2004. Back then, they backed the countywide transit tax. They haven't voted on a city transit tax since saying no to one in 1997. Given those mixed results and the long time that has passed, it's really not clear what Scottsdale voters want. If the city council decided to put a transit initiative on a city ballot and it failed by a decisive margin, I think that would send a strong message that would end discussions like this one. In the absence of a recent vote, it's not unreasonable that there should be speculation about the possibilities.

[wase4711]

well, it may just be anectdotal evidence at this point, but all of my friends who live in scotsdale,(there are quite a few), and almost everyone who posts in this thread and other threads pertaining to this subject, say they do not want light rail in any form in Scottsdale, so until they put it on the ballot, and, I assume there has to be a certain amount of signatures from residents demanding it goes on the ballot, it won't be seriously considered...you can "speculate" all you want, but don't hold your breath expecting to see it happen in the immediate future..

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by wase4711

well, it may just be anectdotal evidence at this point, but all of my friends who live in scotsdale,(there are quite a few), and almost everyone who posts in this thread and other threads pertaining to this subject, say they do not want light rail in any form in Scottsdale, so until they put it on the ballot, and, I assume there has to be a certain amount of signatures from residents demanding it goes on the ballot, it won't be seriously considered...you can "speculate" all you want, but don't hold your breath expecting to see it happen in the immediate future..

There are generally two ways for an initiative to end up on a municipal ballot:

1) The city council can vote to refer something to the ballot. This requires the support of a majority of council members.

2) Voters can organize to collect petition signatures in accordance with a process outlined in the city charter. If enough signatures are obtained and validated, then the initiative goes on the ballot.

I don't see either as strong possibilities as regards light rail, at least not in the short term. The political situation in Scottsdale makes serious consideration of light rail off limits, regardless of what voters might actually support. That's why this conversation is harmless speculation -- sort of like fantasy baseball but played with trains rather than athletes.

[wase4711]

like the "fantasy baseball" analogy..

[Jnvlv247]

Scottsdale just had proposols for more taxes for other things you think they'd want this?

Call it classism all you want but people don't move to a place like Scottsdale to experience urban-like feel with light rails from all over the valley. People want to feel safe and so why compromise that? Have you even BEEN on the light rail or at the stations? I used to love going on and I do admit it's great for downtown PHX or Tempe events but others times it's just scary. I don't trust it at night at all. Scottsdale, like other cities already has a big issue with pandhandlers and homeless.

I do agree that a southern Scottsdale extension with a trolley connection would not be such a bad idea. The people who go to old town can afford ubers and the people in N sdale don't want it even if it's not close to them, etc.

Just stop comparing the metro to SF and Boston, etc and let it do it's own thing. We don't want to follow cities who can barely build because there's no land.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

2) Voters can organize to collect petition signatures in accordance with a process outlined in the city charter. If enough signatures are obtained and validated, then the initiative goes on the ballot.

This would be the best solution: let the people decide. If the majority of Scottsdale voters reject light rail extension, so be it. If the majority say yes, then it should go through. I can understand why the City Council said no to light rail (has little or nothing to do with "classism" or "snobbery") ... it's largely because of the cost and the years of street construction. Still, a governing body making decisions for everybody else wouldn't sit too well with me.

[teeej]

I live in Scottsdale (Hayden and Roosevelt) and I would love to see the light rail!

I work in downtown Phoenix and I can either deal with the morning traffic ( I take streets because the freeways are jammed) or I drive to one of the park and rides in Tempe or Phoenix.

I didn't live in Arizona in 1997 and I wasn't old enough to vote then, I don't think you can say current residents don't want light rail when many of them might not have ever voted on it.

[Prickly Pear]

Originally Posted by teeej

I live in Scottsdale (Hayden and Roosevelt) and I would love to see the light rail!

I work in downtown Phoenix and I can either deal with the morning traffic ( I take streets because the freeways are jammed) or I drive to one of the park and rides in Tempe or Phoenix.

I didn't live in Arizona in 1997 and I wasn't old enough to vote then, I don't think you can say current residents don't want light rail when many of them might not have ever voted on it.

This is a really good point. Imagine what this country would be like if laws or local props were never addressed after their creation. I would have no say at all, I wouldn’t have a credit card, and I wouldn’t be able to own property, because I’m a woman. I’m glad people before me said “hey, we don’t like this, let’s change it”. Moreover, there shouldn’t be a defined timeframe on how often laws get addressed. It should be on a case by case basis as needed. Society isn’t so rigid and quantitative naturally.

I love taking the light rail into work. I save money, and in the evenings I actually save time too. Light rail would be less crowded and more effective if there are more options. If you notice the geography of our valley, most development goes toward the Southeast (think Gilbert and such) and Northwest (think Peoria). And in very recent times “Southwest” (think Avondale). This leads to traffic jams around where Sky Harbor is, due to mountains and such. We do have the light rail running currently through there yes, but it should not be the only option. Ideally a light rail line running on Camelback serving offices in the Biltmore to Fashion Square would create a secondary option, lessen the load on the current line. Assuming it curves back down (ideally on Rural though Priest isn’t a bad option either) would also relieve I-10 traffic and create another N/S option besides the one all the way in Central Phoenix, further south into SE valley, mining into new potential riders.

However historic development of Phoenix along the freight rail lines, and how Scottsdale behaves now, meaning light rail investment beyond Old Town is extremely unlikely, especially compared to other suburbs. Demand just isn’t there and never will be. With the exception of Old Town.

[kell490]

Light rail could have a better image if they got rid of the trash who ride it around for free, and use it as their get away vehicle after they burglarized a home in a neighborhood so they can buy drugs. Buses already go into Scottsdale they don't have the same problems can't get on the bus for free. Light rail just needs to put in scanners when you enter a car without scanning it triggers an alarm sends someone down to check tickets.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Prickly Pear

Ideally a light rail line running on Camelback serving offices in the Biltmore to Fashion Square would create a secondary option, lessen the load on the current line. Assuming it curves back down (ideally on Rural though Priest isn’t a bad option either) would also relieve I-10 traffic and create another N/S option besides the one all the way in Central Phoenix, further south into SE valley, mining into new potential riders.

I wouldn't mind a light rail line on east Camelback, but I have doubts about extending it all the way to Scottsdale Fashion Square for a couple of reasons. The Biltmore/Camelback East area you're referring to is a fairly upscale area with midrise office buildings, but it's really not all that dense, urban, or walkable. Not sure if there would be enough demand, especially if it went all the way to Fashion Square.

You also have to consider that Camelback Road winds through a very non urban area east of 44th Street to the Scottsdale city limits (no sidewalks on a fairly lengthy stretch). Residents in north Arcadia or Royal Palm Estates likely wouldn't use light rail, and would probably balk at the idea of it in this area. Light rail should be strictly concentrated to the locations with the highest demand, which in the majority of cases are the denser urban areas. Some of the plans to put additional lines in the suburban areas seriously need to be reconsidered.