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This was one of the most beautiful cities on the planet once upon a time, but the morons that are in power turned it into a slum.
100 kudos to you - you are absolutely right. The homeless run the streets and rule the parks which they have turned into outdoor toilets. SF is also a paradise for potheads! What an accomplishment!
It takes a 7 figure income to be what would be considered middle class in Phoenix. Who needs it! I do not even like visiting there anymore. And in years past I spent plenty of time in "The City".
There seems to be no atmosphere or ambiance anywhere. Cultural insitutions generic. Opera? Symphony? Ugh, I'm talking about interesting urban nieghborhoods with life and soul. Places I can people watch without having to sit under flourescent lighting sipping a mass corporate-produced latte/smoothie.
(...)
Isn't it difficult to live there?
It's interesting to me that on every one of these "the wonderful city I came from is so much more cosmopolitan than your provincial little desert cowtown" posts, the theme of the main points of contrast seem to be:
"I can walk around and hang out in cafes and have a bagel and coffee with interesting strangers!" and always "We have real opera and ballet!"
I always wonder how many of these people actually attended and supported opera and ballet in their places of birth. Because if you can afford the prices of season tickets to any of the prestigious opera or ballet companies in San Francisco, D.C., New York, et al (on top of affording to live there as well), you can afford to live anywhere you want so why are you here?
Last edited by Arizona Mike; 07-24-2009 at 07:13 PM..
I'm a Euroamerican, having lived both in European cities and American cities my whole life. Currently, I reside in San Francisco, where quite frankly I think it is one of the nicest cities in America. I happen to have a high standard for cities. Yes, I am as anti-NIMBY pro-urban growth anti-sprawl as it gets. I want to see mom and pop stores, not just endless chains and malls and monolithic highways, interesting walkable neighborhoods with diverse styles of architecture, I want to see PEOPLE ON THE STREETS and not hidden away anonymously in their cars. In San Francisco, Portland, Vancouver, etc (which still lags behind many European cities), you don't HAVE to have a car, you can take the public transportation all over the city, and there's countless cultural opportunities and places to explore.
Phoenix? My God. I was there last month visiting a friend who had to be transfered there. I can't think of a more depressing place. The climate argument? I get it, I grew up in San Diego. But the heat there is oppresive. I'd rather take humidity in the high 80's than fearing everyday my windshield will explode. The suburban dream? I get it, if it meant that I didn't have to drive a mile just to grab something at a convienience store. The vast expanse of land and space? I get it, if it didn't mean barren brown desert and a yellow dust filled sky.
I've traveled all over and PHX has to be one of the most uninteresting cities. Not only did it seem like there were no people anywhere (except for streams of cars) except INSIDE restaurants or malls, there seemed to be no walkable areas except for the contrived Tempe area. Scottsdale seemed like one of those places investors said, "let's make a Disneyfied Old Town feel right here....with diagnol parking adjacent to every single sidewalk blocking the view of storefronts and the actual buildings".
There seems to be no atmosphere or ambiance anywhere. Cultural insitutions generic. Opera? Symphony? Ugh, I'm talking about interesting urban nieghborhoods with life and soul. Places I can people watch without having to sit under flourescent lighting sipping a mass corporate-produced latte/smoothie.
But the main thing for me is, that fact the city is SO unwalkable. It's like the city was built for cars, not people. And the sheer time it takes to get from one part of the city to the other.
I don't know, people. I have to get this out, and I have to ask - Why PHX? Even for job reasons, is it worth it to stay in such a bland, soulless enviornment? I just don't get it...I would be SO depressed to live there. All it is a failed American Dream unsustainable city. Imagine PHX in 50 years, will it still be liveable? Will you able to drive your car everywhere?
Isn't it difficult to live there?
Wow, nothing more than a pointless rant. I don't know what you are smoking, but Phoenix is a great city, with plenty of "soul", ""culture", and ambiance. It is also very walkable in many areas. As someone who has spent a lot of time in Phoenix the past five years, I can honestly say that everything that you have said about the city is complete BS.
Yeah, it gets hot in the Summer, so what? I gaurantee if you spent some time in places like New Orleans or Houston in the summer (where the actual temperature can be as hot as 100 with a heat index of 120 with the humidity) you would be begging for the dry heat.
Phoenix is not for everyone, but then again, I think that concept pretty much applies to ANY city. You were only there for a very short amount of time, so you really have no right to judge it like you have. BTW, maybe you should move back to Europe, since you seem to like it there so much more.
The brutal summers makes it less tolerable. I agree with a lot of what your abserved. Dead streets, lack of people walking about. Everything the same basic color sceme. It is strange, I cope knowing my time here is limited, I do know once I leave where ever I land I plan on having a little garden I never appreciated any of that, like I know I would now!
The heat! Dear God, the wonderful HEAT! It's one of the reasons I live here!
I was born here (one of the 7 natives in this city). I've spent many, many summers here. My house didn't have air conditioning as a kid, and my first two cars had black vinyl interiors and no AC. Let me give you a hint about how to survive the heat. Just tell yourself it's good. Keep repeating that to yourself. And it is.
The heat keeps our population (already too large) down. If it wasn't for the almost unendurable heat, we would be larger than New York. We're far too big already, thanks to all you effete transplants.
The heat makes it difficult to garden. Every one of you who comes here and wants to make your front yard look like you're still back home in Resume Speed, Indiana or Mashed Potato Falls, Ohio try to plant rose bushes and big green lawns and apple trees, using up our valuable water. But Old Sol, our blessed ultraviolent-pumping class M star, kills your lawns and turns your rose bushes into pathetic, dry stalks. Unless you toil night and day. You live in a desert. Remember that.
The heat can be mind-altering and put you into a (natural) altered state of consciousness. To paraphrase Frank Herbert, God created the desert to train the faithful. As I feel the heavy pressure of the superheated air swirl around my body and pump through my lungs, I marvel at the fact I can live here, in this most inhospitable climate, by dint of will (and the marvels of air conditioning). I remember the fact that all of the major messianic religions arose out of desert regions, and think of the inner resources that must be called upon to survive here, or even to just hold a coherent thought in your head for more than a minute at a time.
The heat is actually good for your body. The warmth suffuses your joints and tissues and makes your body feel limber and alive. Who needs to pay for a Bikram Yoga class in a sweaty, superheated parlor? Just step outside. Old joint injuries disappear. A water sprinkler turns every back yard into a child's water park. Physical love is a wonderful, slippery experience as your bodies slip and slide. Old people don't have to worry about slipping on an icy sidewalk and breaking their hip. Only heat stroke.
The heat is Green. It costs less and damages the environment far less to air condition a home in the southwest all summer than to heat a house in the north all winter.
The heat is better than natural disasters. I've had to live in places where hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, tornados, ice storms, race riots, and celebrity murder trials are common. None of that here. Only the heat, the microwave-oven-like heat, and you know that's coming every year and can prepare for it.
The heat creates an ecology that is a marvel to behold. The demands of survival in this land have created marvels of natural engineering in the plants and animals that live here. The biodiversity and sheer evolutionary ingenuity of life here is astonishing and more entrancing (and often deadly!) than anywhere else in our republic.
The heat is rhythmic. We can stand anything if we know it will end. As humans, we crave novelty, even as we aso crave security. But too much novelty feels like chaos, and too much security leads to stagnation. The wonderful rhythm of the seasons gives us what our souls need, as C.S. Lewis pointed out. The heat comes, we endure it, then the sweet, cool fall and winter, a beautiful time in Phoenix. And so it goes, over and over and over again.
And lastly...
You can always go to San Diego for the weekend. Legoland is always nice.
People flock to hot climates. You never hear of families vacationing to North Dakota in January. People like warmth, and do not like to be cold.
People make their way to hot climates every summer. Hot is good. It does not keep people away, except for those poor souls who either misunderstand it, or are so acclimated to cold climates that they are shocked at the drastic change.
To give a further explenation to the in my above post...
It was specifically to this statement:
"The heat keeps our population (already too large) down. If it wasn't for the almost unendurable heat, we would be larger than New York. We're far too big already, thanks to all you effete transplants."
If there were no "effete transplants" Phoenix would be a very small desert/agriculteral town. It would be very stale, and not even Arizona Mike would want to live there. Phoenix would be an over-sized Gila Bend, and not much more.
I guess I don't understand how someone could enjoy all the benefits of the "effete transplants" and yet complain about them, as well. Do you like your job? House? The park down the road? Sky Harbor? Diamondbacks and Cardinals? Spring Training? The museums? Movie theaters? The malls? Super Target? The restaurant you visit a couple times a month? Whatever else it is you enjoy in the area? Guess what? Those don't exist without the "effete transplants".
Also, a final point, at some point Arizona Mike's family (parents? grandparents?) were "effete transplants" and that fact does not seem to bother him.
To give a further explenation to the in my above post...
It was specifically to this statement:
"The heat keeps our population (already too large) down. If it wasn't for the almost unendurable heat, we would be larger than New York. We're far too big already, thanks to all you effete transplants."
If there were no "effete transplants" Phoenix would be a very small desert/agriculteral town. It would be very stale, and not even Arizona Mike would want to live there. Phoenix would be an over-sized Gila Bend, and not much more.
I guess I don't understand how someone could enjoy all the benefits of the "effete transplants" and yet complain about them, as well. Do you like your job? House? The park down the road? Sky Harbor? Diamondbacks and Cardinals? Spring Training? The museums? Movie theaters? The malls? Super Target? The restaurant you visit a couple times a month? Whatever else it is you enjoy in the area? Guess what? Those don't exist without the "effete transplants".
Also, a final point, at some point Arizona Mike's family (parents? grandparents?) were "effete transplants" and that fact does not seem to bother him.
I kid you, because I care, Ritchie_az. I'm married to a transplant, and one of my children is a transplant. Some of my best friends are transplants.
I was talking about them there effete transplants... The ones who move here and then complain about how it's not like wherever they were from.
Sorry for the misunderstanding, Mike. I hope there are no hard feelings.
"The ones who move here and then complain about how it's not like wherever they were from."
I don't get that, either. If it's so much better wherever one is from, then why not go back?
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I don't know what you are smoking, but Phoenix is a great city, with plenty of "soul", ""culture", and ambiance. It is also very walkable in many areas. As someone who has spent a lot of time in Phoenix the past five years, I can honestly say that everything that you have said about the city is complete BS. 
