Are people in pittsburgh angry and/or confrontational? (Monroe: wedding, theater)

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by scottrpriester

Shoveling is a part of dealing with heavy snowfall. You don't own the street. I could care less how hard someone has to shovel. Life's tough.

I'll bet good money that you don't even own a shovel, scott.

::::looking for Copanut to straighten you out about your "could care less" grammar!::::

[ditchdigger]

This is what you don't get. It isn't because of a 'feeling of superiority' that I don't put out a chair. It is because I actually respect my neighbors, their visitors and anyone else who might have to park when I am gone. Putting a chair out is pure selfishness and shows a complete and utter lack of respect for anyone but yourself.

Well, you're a helluva guy. And let it be known that if you were my neighbor, and I came home to find your spot clear and empty, I might park there, but only long enough to shovel out the spot in front of my own house. That's because I have enough respect for you and your labor to not deprive you of it. And if you came home before I was done, I'd yeild your spot to you, because that's how neighbors should treat each other.

If I were a visitor to one of your neighbors, and I had no option other than to avail myself of your spot, I'd be watching out the window and be prepared to cut my visit short to allow you use of that which you'd labored to clear. Again, respect for you and your labor.

That having been said, not everybody would do the same, and I still think the chair falls into the same class of things as "locks keep honest people honest", and "good fences make good neighbors." The chair is a tangible reminder of who invested the labor to create the cleared spot, and anyone who would deprive a person of that spot also shows "a complete and utter lack of respect for anyone but (them)self."

It is fun, isn't it? I live in the land of personally owned off-street parking too! And the parking chair is still hillarious!

What's really great is that we can argue the issue with such passion in the first week of May.

[MeinGlanzendMotorrad]

There's still spots "reserved" with chairs/sawhorses within sight of my house. Though I don't have to be concerned much, I have the only driveway within a few blocks, and one of two garages in about the same distance.

Also anyone who decides they're going to shovel my car in if I park in an open spot while out somewhere visiting or what have you will be having to have an urgent shovelectomy performed on their posterior.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by ditchdigger

What's really great is that we can argue the issue with such passion in the first week of May.

We will be just as passionate about the parking chair in August and September too!

Originally Posted by MeinGlanzendMotorrad

There's still spots "reserved" with chairs/sawhorses within sight of my house. Though I don't have to be concerned much, I have the only driveway within a few blocks, and one of two garages in about the same distance.

Also anyone who decides they're going to shovel my car in if I park in an open spot while out somewhere visiting or what have you will be having to have an urgent shovelectomy performed on their posterior.

WHY would you park in an open street space someone else shoveled if you have YOUR OWN DRIVEWAY?

[MeinGlanzendMotorrad]

WHY would you be incapable of reading?

[hnsq]

Originally Posted by ditchdigger

Well, you're a helluva guy. And let it be known that if you were my neighbor, and I came home to find your spot clear and empty, I might park there, but only long enough to shovel out the spot in front of my own house. That's because I have enough respect for you and your labor to not deprive you of it. And if you came home before I was done, I'd yeild your spot to you, because that's how neighbors should treat each other.

If I were a visitor to one of your neighbors, and I had no option other than to avail myself of your spot, I'd be watching out the window and be prepared to cut my visit short to allow you use of that which you'd labored to clear. Again, respect for you and your labor.

That having been said, not everybody would do the same, and I still think the chair falls into the same class of things as "locks keep honest people honest", and "good fences make good neighbors." The chair is a tangible reminder of who invested the labor to create the cleared spot, and anyone who would deprive a person of that spot also shows "a complete and utter lack of respect for anyone but (them)self."

What's really great is that we can argue the issue with such passion in the first week of May.

You still don't understand what a 'public street' means...do you?

The parking chair and other issues like that (local tradition as you call it) is a person too lazy to park anywhere but the exact spot right in front of their house. If you want to be a good neighbor, get up and help your neighbors shovel the entire street (like I do), and then the whole street is clear and NO ONE needs a chair.

Or you can keep a chair outside, maybe throw some trash and beer cans around as well just to complete the hick-ish, redneck look it makes.

[ditchdigger]

You still don't understand what a 'public street' means...do you?

Sure I do.

I think subdivisions posted a pretty good analogy earlier though:

Originally Posted by subdivisions

Actually, I think the analogy to the public beach is a good one.

There generally aren't any official laws stating that an individual has the legal right to reserve a sitting spot on a public beach with their umbrella, towel, & cooler. Technically, anyone who does that is pretty much doing exactly what a Pittsburgher does when they put their chair down to reserve a parking spot on the street - they're depriving someone else of the opportunity to put their umbrella or towel there without having any legal justification whatsoever for doing so.

But the social norm on public beaches is generally understood to be that one respects the space that other beach-goers have staked out for themselves. The reason that social norm exists is to reduce potential conflict between all the people using the public utility. So maybe one beach-goer decides that he doesn't like that social norm because it doesn't personally mesh with the way he thinks the social dynamic should work, or because it doesn't personally benefit him or whatever, and he says, "I'm moving your towel and taking this spot, because you were up getting ice cream and anyway it's NOT LEGAL ON THIS PUBLIC BEACH for you to reserve a spot with your towel, so too bad, sucker!"

What do you think will happen then? Is what happens then a good thing for any of the beach-goers in the vicinity?

Native Pittsburghers have worked out a system for public parking like the beach-towel system on a public beach. When someone comes along and says, "this isn't the way I personally think it should be done, so *********r chair, sucker!", it causes conflict and unhappiness. I personally think it's incredibly arrogant for anyone to just declare themselves above the system like that, ESPECIALLY a transplant who is in the minority in this city. It's like being a tourist at a beach and just deciding that you know better than the locals how things should work there. That takes some pretty big cojones (and that's not a compliment).

Here's another example--you go to a wedding reception (without assigned seating) and arrive early, so you choose a table and hang your coat on the chair, and your wife puts something of hers on the next one. A few of your family member have done the same. You all go off briefly to mingle, get a drink, or go to the restroom or something. When you return, some strangers have moved your stuff and they're sitting in those seats. Aren't you going to feel slighted by that behavior? I think most people would. Would you remove a stranger's belongings and sit down? I think most people wouldn't.

The point is that even though that's not a case of "public" property, it's still a case of how we share public spaces. There are protocols established, uncodified and nonverbal, yet we learn them and follow them because it promotes order in our relationships with strangers.

Originally Posted by ditchdigger

My earliest recollection of it was from growing up 2 blocks from Shadyside's Hunt Armory. Long before the Civic Arena, the Convention Center, or anything like the Expo Mart, events like the Boat show and the Car shows were held at Hunt Armory. While everyday parking wasn't usually an issue in those days, during those events, the surrounding streets were a mess, because there was no such thing as a parking lot of any size anywhere nearby. I specifically remember Dad putting out the chair in front of our house, and asking him why.

Nobody responded to this post, probably because most of our focus has been on snowstorm type events, which are random and caused by nature.

I'd be interested in how everybody looks at an example like this one, where a man-made event draws large numbers of outsiders to a neighborhood in search of a parking space. A good example might be 4th of July fireworks in the neighborhood near a community park with insufficient parking lot space. Does the chair command respect there?

I'll point out that in some communities such as those with existing parking problems and access to nearby transit, "permit parking only" is the law. To me that establishes a precedent that, in an ongoing situation, the rights of neighborhood residents prevail over those of non-residents. Should the principles for short-duration events differ?

[stburr91]

Originally Posted by ditchdigger

Nobody responded to this post, probably because most of our focus has been on snowstorm type events, which are random and caused by nature.

I'd be interested in how everybody looks at an example like this one, where a man-made event draws large numbers of outsiders to a neighborhood in search of a parking space. A good example might be 4th of July fireworks in the neighborhood near a community park with insufficient parking lot space. Does the chair command respect there?

Should the principles for short-duration events differ?

I live near a public football field, and it draws a large enough crowd during Pop Warner games to cause parking conflicts with the local residents. Some of my neighbors put out chairs, and the visitors always seem to still respect the chair.

[scrapp]

Originally Posted by ditchdigger

Here's another example--you go to a wedding reception (without assigned seating) and arrive early, so you choose a table and hang your coat on the chair, and your wife puts something of hers on the next one. A few of your family member have done the same. You all go off briefly to mingle, get a drink, or go to the restroom or something. When you return, some strangers have moved your stuff and they're sitting in those seats. Aren't you going to feel slighted by that behavior? I think most people would. Would you remove a stranger's belongings and sit down? I think most people wouldn't.

Here's the counter-example: you go out to dinner. there is a long line of people waiting to order their food. you wait through the line, place your order, and collect your food. then you look for a place to sit. you discover that there are no tables available because the folks waiting in line behind you have "reserved" all the open tables with their coats while they wait in line so that they will have a place to eat when they finally get their food.

you end up eating standing up next to the trash can because you don 't want your food to get cold. nice.

[ditchdigger]

Originally Posted by scrapp

Here's the counter-example: you go out to dinner. there is a long line of people waiting to order their food. you wait through the line, place your order, and collect your food. then you look for a place to sit. you discover that there are no tables available because the folks waiting in line behind you have "reserved" all the open tables with their coats while they wait in line so that they will have a place to eat when they finally get their food.

you end up eating standing up next to the trash can because you don 't want your food to get cold. nice.

I guess I'd feel kinda dumb for not "reserving" a table.

Was your date very upset with you?