Corbett and Public Transit? (Butler, Fox Chapel: chapel, buy, inspection)

[ML North]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Not necessarily "worse". I am hoping PAT folds and a private company takes over. I have to hope for that, because with PAT still going there is NO winning for anyone. We just keep throwing money at a failed business model. You know the model that has a monopoly, big union, can shut down service and has overhead that would strangle any normal business due to overpaying and huge fixed costs. Pensions that are enormous.

As far as raising the taxes locally, lets see what happens. I think whoever suggests that will be gone in the next term. People are tired of throwing money at something that is a joke. They got away with the huge drink tax. Lets see if they get away with another new tax. Should be interesting.

None of that is likely to happen, and if it does it is going to take a very long time, during which you'll be paying a lot and getting little in return.

A more likely scenario is that PAT's funding is reduced to such a level that it's only able to pay legacy benefits and cannot offer any service. Of course in that situation you'd be paying the same amount in taxes and receiving absolutely nothing in return. And that can all be avoided if the state simply returned to funding PAT at acceptable levels, but that requires people to recognize that continuing on the current path is really a raw deal.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

When I was in the Burgh last time I definitely saw buses without racks....Mostly the ones still painted Red/White/Black....I guess because they're getting ready for the Junk Yard...but still you can't say the fleet is 100%

I don't know when you were last here, but they claimed in that article they would be hitting 100% at the end of 2011, when scheduled retirements would eliminate the last buses without racks.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by ML North

I'm not really trying to get him to understand all the nuances of the transportation crisis (there's a lot that I don't know myself), but the basic fact is that everyone in Allegheny County is going to be receiving less for their money.

I agree not everyone needs to know all the details, but the TFAC report really is quite useful for explaining the role the state plays in funding transportation, including transit, why its existing revenue streams are increasingly inadequate to meet its funding needs, and what could be done to address those issues. And so many of this particular poster's repeated questions about why other people are discussing the things that they are discussing would be answered if he could be bothered to inform himself on those matters.

[ML North]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

It won't effect most people in a negative manner. I am not convinced traffic will be worse when PAT folds. When the bus strike was going on, the traffic seemed better. Buses hold up one heck of a lot of cars due to the ridiculous amount of stops they make because people can't walk one stinking block.

PAT serves about 200,000 people on a given day. Even with 4 riders per car, you're going to have 50,000 more cars on the road. And very few cars are completely filled, so it would likely be closer to 100,000 - 150,000 more cars on the road. If you think that won't make traffic much worse, you're fooling yourself.

Of course you'll still be paying the same amount in taxes.

[Blackbeauty212]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I don't know when you were last here, but they claimed in that article they would be hitting 100% at the end of 2011, when scheduled retirements would eliminate the last buses without racks.

It was Christmas to NY week....so it's possible they're all now 100% with racks....There are Red/White/Black (PATransit branding) buses with racks and some without so I guess not all old buses are getting retired.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by ML North

None of that is likely to happen.

Indeed. Generally, a great deal of confusion is caused in these discussions by people who seem not to understand that PAT has no legal means by which to declare bankruptcy. They also seem unaware of the history of private transit bus companies in the area--their financial failure is what led to the creation of PAT in the first place.

But again, certain people just don't want to be informed.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by ML North

PAT serves about 200,000 people on a given day. Even with 4 riders per car, you're going to have 50,000 more cars on the road. And very few cars are completely filled, so it would likely be closer to 100,000 - 150,000 more cars on the road. If you think that won't make traffic much worse, you're fooling yourself.

Of course you'll still be paying the same amount in taxes.

But much, much more in parking.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

There are Red/White/Black (PATransit branding) buses with racks and some without so I guess not all old buses are getting retired.

Yep, as I understand it the plan was to retrofit the ones which weren't being retired by the end of 2011, which combined with the retirements would get you to 100%. I don't know if all those retirements happened as scheduled, but of course the broader point is that BikePGH and PAT's current management have a good working relationship with PAT trying to help BikePGH achieve its multi-mode goals, and BikePGH supporting a solution to the state transportation funding crisis.

[UKyank]

One plus, the elimination of PAT could quickly revitalize the Hill, the Northside & that weird dead area between station square & the southside - all walkable to downtown, as there's no way there's enough available parking downtown to accommodate that number of additional cars

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by UKyank

One plus, the elimination of PAT could quickly revitalize the Hill, the Northside & that weird dead area between station square & the southside - all walkable to downtown, as there's no way there's enough available parking downtown to accommodate that number of additional cars

Of course all that takes time and money, and an alternative would be for employers and other centers of economic activity to flee the core area, and perhaps the metro area entirely.

Generally it is hard to predict exactly how such a destabilizing event would play out. But it is a good bet that it would result in a lot of transition costs, net loss of land value, higher average transportation costs, higher local costs in general for economic activity, and therefore less total local economic activity (including employment).

Hopefully we don't find out exactly how all that economic distress would be distributed.