Map of the Body Bag: A Collection of Neighborhoods Where Homicides Occur More Often Than Anywhere Else (Pittsburgh: low income, apartment complexes)

[speagles84]

Originally Posted by Hopes

How are the businesses doing on Main Street in Munhall these days?

Are they still just low rent sleazy type businesses? Or are more trendy places opening up?

I haven't been over that way in a few years.

I don't frequent the area much anymore Hopes. I was there a few months ago, but it seemed to be much of the same; low crappy businesses surrounded by vacant properties. What little business they had was robbed by the waterfront.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by speagles84

I don't frequent the area much anymore Hopes. I was there a few months ago, but it seemed to be much of the same; low crappy businesses surrounded by vacant properties. What little business they had was robbed by the waterfront.

Its slightly better then is was before - there some decent eating/eating places that have popped up but nothing compared to the revitalization that was modeled when the Waterfront was proposed.

I would disagree that the Waterfront robbed much in the way of business from Main St there though.

[Uptown kid]

I guess being a white person I just don't know if I'll ever be able to comprehend how things go down in the 'hood. Not that I condone gang-related violence, but I'm apathetic towards thugs killing each other as long as they are squarely focused on one another and work to keep innocent civilians out of it. I just want to live in Pittsburgh without fear of being randomly shot in the back of the head as a Blood and a Crip try to intimidate one another. Recently, though, there seems to be an alarming trend here of these thugs not caring if they kill bystanders in the process as long as they prove a point or something. Is this a "new breed" of thug? If I so much as step on a caterpillar by accident while running on the North Shore Trail I nearly cry. I couldn't imagine blowing an old lady away at a kids' football game by accident and not losing any sleep over it.

No not really. Not all of the 90's-present day murders in the Body Bag, Hazelwood, Mon Valley, Northside, Westside, or Southern Hilltop are inner-personal, drug or gang related... Many black families from the innercity have lost innocent young love ones to gun violence because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time or looked like the wrong motherlover... These thugs are not afraid to empty a clip on a whole posse of young people, even if the intended target(s) is/are just one or two individuals. That's where it's dangerous... And urban/the following that attract certain people bars, night clubs, parks, malls/shopping centers can (as in rarely can) become as just as scary as the projects when gangs start bustin their guns. So you just have to know what to do in these types of situations, while not freaking out/acting stupid. People who aren't from the hod have to try their best to think as if they were from the hood when the go to certain places.

Also eschaton, a very wise/informative poster, made a good point that most of these murders have a clear motive and firearm predation is not occurring amongst the innocent very often... That being said, dozens of children have lost their fathers and many mothers have lost their sons to random robberies. Dozens out of hundrends isnt bad, but it still happens.

[selltheburgh]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Gah. I mean the stuff on the west side of South Negley...the area around the Sharp Edge. People always think of that as a slightly run down part of Friendship, but it's technically in East Liberty.

West of S Negley is Friendship. Negley is the line that basically runs north and south dividing East Liberty and Friendship. The area by the sharp edge and spinning plates is East Liberty.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by selltheburgh

West of S Negley is Friendship. Negley is the line that basically runs north and south dividing East Liberty and Friendship. The area by the sharp edge and spinning plates is East Liberty.

I'm really not on a roll today. Maybe it's an aftereffect of the root canal this morning.

[selltheburgh]

I figured you knew, but couldn't type it out properly. I was just posting it so others understood.

[Sealtite]

Originally Posted by Goinback2011

Blatant in your face racism. You want the prices of the ghetto but you want the current residents who create those prices gone.

How do progressives rationalize this racism?

Thugs are thugs. I don't give a damn what color their skin is, and neither should anyone else. Business is business, and that's exactly how these places in question became "ghettos" in the first place. It isn't the end-result of some vague societal quirk. Pockets of public housing and section eight homes came into existence as a direct result of greed in one way, shape, or form (slumlords who are guaranteed the rent through the government, etc).

On the opposite side, progressive "gentrification" is also born of, among other things, financial opportunism. Furthermore, in the grand scheme of things, Americans are becoming sick and tired of the excuses given for these sh*tbag "gangsta" types. Their "culture" now transcends all races, yet there are still plenty of people who's archaic 90's amalgamation of the "PC gene" kicks in when these plankton are called out for their antics and overall drain on society. Sorry, but the race card's getting harder and harder to play with the "Children of Viacom" as I like to call them.

You wear your hat sideways, your pants around your knees, carry an unlicensed firearm, and deal crack and have no job, and you're a POS. I don't care if you're blacker than the ace of spades or whiter than Edgar Winter. Doesn't matter.

[simetime]

Originally Posted by Uptown kid

-Here's an article that shows how even the police are aware that Chauncey Drive affiliated itself as Bloods... Masked gunmen wound man in Hill District | TribLIVE Mobile
-The Elmore Square Projects were originally the home of the Gute Block Gang, but now they relocated to the Chauncey Drive Projects (like the Francis Street group did in the early 2000's). Youth from Elmore Sq always used the phrase "gute" similarly to how the youth from rest of the Hill use "ike" and/or "nephs"...
East Pittsburgh man killed in Munhall shooting identified - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
-I couldn't find any articles of the "Down Low", Bentley Drive, Webster, or Bedford Avenue groups getting publicity; however, there are probably videos out on YouTube as members of those groups claimed to be bloods
-Reed Rude Boyz aka Lost City Souljaz
Reed Rude Boys Hill District Pittsburgh PA - YouTube
-Flackside (before Oakhill became safer and during the mid 2000's when they relocated and united with other groups in Middle Hill)
I only found music promos, but the gang member-turned rappers identify themselves with the Bloods here
FLACKSIDE HILL DISTRICT PITTSBURGH PA - YouTube

I'm not questioning or doubting your knowledge here. I have strong roots to the Hill like most blacks in this city do I had several relatives scattered from Robinson Court to Cliff Street, and I know a few people involved (family) who also grew up in the Hill (Lower Hill)... Perhaps in the 90's it was different, but now these groups of thugs (whether legit or not) identify themselfs as the "Hill Districk Bloods", and rep the following groups: 1100 Bedford Avenue; Bentley Drive; Chauncey Drive; "Down Low"; "Flackside"; "Gute Block"; "Lost City" aka "Reed Rude"; & Webster Avenue (older individuals in the later). Most of those groups get along with each other, and members frequently hang out/deal drugs/do business with each other as (everybody's original homes have been razed so their forced to hang)
Now whether "gangs" in the Hill District are just simply hybrid gangs posing as Bloods when ever a camcorder comes around for a music video is a totalky different story. If that was the case it would make sense... and coincidentally from my experiences in the Hill, and from what you can on the internet I've noticed that throwing up B'z/CK, tagging red graffiti, and red bandana wearing isn't as rampant as it is in Garfield, the East Hills or even McKeesport. Plus when driving through there I noticed that red is only slightly more common than blue (even though Pittsburgh isn't about colors anymore until gang members put on bandanas for concealing their identities). Yet when ever Hill District gang members do put on bandanas they are red, black and camo patterns (signifying their allegiance to the Bloods by the red).

IMO the loosely organized "gangs" in the Hill District, West End, Clairton, and Duquesne seem in between loosely organized street gangs and neighborhood crews/hybrid gangs (for example there are hybrid gangs in current East Liberty, SW Penn Hills, McKees Rocks, SugarTop, Chartiers, South Oakland, Crestas Terrace, etc) like you though Weedside was. But in the 2000's they've always been out there. And I'm affirmative that you will see that when you come back.

Ok, I will let you know when I do

[simetime]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

I personally just can't envision how these thugs can't have consciences. It's one thing to pull a gun and kill a rival gang member while feeling no semblance of remorse due to years of conditioning to feel as if your target was "the enemy" instead of a human being loved and cherished by a mother, siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles, friends, etc. However, if you shoot, miss, and instead fatally wound a smiling grandmother, who was just watching her grandchild play football, sitting nearby, then how could you just shrug your shoulders and think "collateral damage"? How would they feel if one of their friends accidentally shot their own grandmother while trying to shoot a rival gang member?

I guess being a white person I just don't know if I'll ever be able to comprehend how things go down in the 'hood. Not that I condone gang-related violence, but I'm apathetic towards thugs killing each other as long as they are squarely focused on one another and work to keep innocent civilians out of it. I just want to live in Pittsburgh without fear of being randomly shot in the back of the head as a Blood and a Crip try to intimidate one another. Recently, though, there seems to be an alarming trend here of these thugs not caring if they kill bystanders in the process as long as they prove a point or something. Is this a "new breed" of thug? If I so much as step on a caterpillar by accident while running on the North Shore Trail I nearly cry. I couldn't imagine blowing an old lady away at a kids' football game by accident and not losing any sleep over it.

Believe me it is just not whites who do not know what happened either. Older blacks who can remember playing with their kids in the playgrounds on warm summer nights without hearing gunfire. I really believe that whatever happened it was during my generation and the one after it when many summer job and after school programs began to disappear.

[Uptown kid]

Believe me it is just not whites who do not know what happened either. Older blacks who can remember playing with their kids in the playgrounds on warm summer nights without hearing gunfire. I really believe that whatever happened it was during my generation and the one after it when many summer job and after school programs began to disappear.

I have uncles and what not that would agree with you... During the late 80's-mid 90's is when most black neighborhoods transitioned from neighborhoods with minor drug/safety issues to epicenters of violence/drug trafficking. There were minor rivalries between hoods up until the 80'a such as: East Hills & Homewood, St. Clair Village & Arlington Heights, Northview & Manchester, Hill & Hazelwood, Crawford Village & Harrison Village, etc that later became locally major street wars.

In the Body Bag especially, gangs have been feuding since the early 90's (there are a few that even began in the late 80's)... In the 90's the beefs in the Body Bag were:
-Homewood Crips vs Homewood Crips (1993 only)
-Homewood Crips vs Wilkinsburg's LAW gang
-Homewood Crips vs East Hills Bloods
-Homewood Crips vs Lincoln-Lemington Crips
-Homewood Crips vs Garfield Bloods
-Larimer's LAW gang Vs Garfield Bloods
-East Hills Bloods vs Wilkinsburg's LAW gang
-Lincoln-Lemington Crips vs Larimer's LAW gang
-Garfield Bloods vs East Liberty's Crips/East Mall Apts/Lincoln Park Apts/Penn Circle East Apts
-Garfield Bloods vs Lincoln-Lemington Crips
-East Liberty's Crips/East Mall Apts vs Larimer's LAW's
& to a lesser extent
-Wilkinsburg's LAW gang vs Lincoln Park/Eastwood, Penn Hills hybrid crews
*In the East Mall, Lincoln Park, Penn Circle East Apts, drug dealers occasionally killed eachother (drug related violence not really qualifying for gang violence)

Today it's:
-UpTown Hoods & City Bound Gangtaz, Wilkinsburg G'z (LAW) vs J-Town Hoods, Wilkinsburg G'z (LAW)
-Lincoln Avenue Crips vs Homewood's Crips
-UpTown Homewood Crips vs DownTown Homewood Crips
-DownTown Homewood Crips vs 581 HillTop Crips & 211 Dallas-Inwood Boyz (Homewood's Crips)
-581 HillTop Crips & 211 Dallas-Inwood Boyz (Homewood Crips) vs UpTown Homewood Crips
-Wilkinsburg G'z (LAW) vs East Hills Bloods
-Wilkinsburg G'z (LAW) vs the DownTown & UpTown Homewood Crips
-East Hills Bloods vs Homewood's Crips
-Garfield Bloods vs Larimer Avenue Hoods (LAW)
& to a lesser extent
-Lincoln Avenue Crips vs Garfirld Bloods
-Larimer Avenue Hoods (LAW) Vs East Liberty's hybrid gangs
-East Liberty's hybrid gangs vs Garfield Bloods
-Garfield Bloods vs UpTown & Down Town Homewood Crips
*In the highlighted parts of Lincoln Park/Eastwood/Nadine/Laketon Heights, Penn Hills & Northern East Liberty drug dealers occasionally kill eachother (drug related violence not really qualifying for gang violence)

So basically most gang rivalries have been going on for over two decades!!! And just like SCR said how one street separates black & white, one street/gas stations often separates these rival neighborhoods... In Homewood's & Wilkinsburg's case parts of one neighborhood! Today Frankstown Ave-strictly separates "UpTown" & "DownTown" Homewood; Brushton Ave- roughly seperates Brushton-Hilltop and "UpTown" Homewood; Oakwood St- strictly separates Homewood & the East Hills; Penn Ave strictly separates UpTown & J-Town Wilkinsburg; Apple Ave/Stranahan St strictly separates Homewood & Lincoln-Lemington; Nimick Pl-strictly separates the East Hills & Wilkinsburg; Rodgers Middle School (formerly Negley Ave) roughly separates Northern East Liberty & Garfield; & the Lincoln & Larimer Ave Bridges strictly separate Lincoln-Lemington & Larimer