Pennsylvania / Pittsburgh teacher salaries

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Mtl-Cns

I apologize if by "Asian" you assumed that I meant those of Asian ethnicity who have been US citizens for generations. Probably my fault for not having been clearer and could explain why you've been so reluctant to accept things from a few different posters besides just me. That's why from the CMU data the country in which they were born is so important. I've meant "Asian" as in born in an Asian country or currently a US citizen but your parents/grandparents were schooled in an Asian country therefore they have retained a lot of the cultural identify of being Asian.

It's hard to look at something like this: Rankings Of Countries In Math And Science - Business Insider
and not think that culture must have something to do with it.

Tiger parenting isn't a US phenomena of Asians who have been US citizens for generations. Tiger parenting is how children are raised in many Asian countries.

It's a shame you won't consider the socioeconomic factors that impact student performance. That's more relevant to education challenges in the US. You're not going to change American culture, but socioeconomic issues can be addressed if we are committed as a nation.

[Mtl-Cns]

Originally Posted by Hopes

It's a shame you won't consider the socioeconomic factors that impact student performance. That's more relevant to education challenges in the US. You're not going to change American culture, but socioeconomic issues can be addressed if we are committed as a nation.

It's not that I won't consider socioeconomic factors, I'm just having a hard time connecting the dots. I assume that there is socioeconomic disparity in China as well, yet their students achieve on much higher levels than ours. Why is that?

[Mtl-Cns]

Originally Posted by Hopes

This should help you connect the dots.

The quadratic relationship between socioeconomic status and learning performance in China by multilevel analysis: Implications for policies to foster education equity

Interesting article, but it seems to me from reading the conclusion that the reasoning behind those on the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum achieving as successfully as those on the higher end of the spectrum is cultural!

From the conclusion:
"This means that learners with a lower and higher SES achieve better as compared to learners with a middle SES level. It is to be stressed that the latter group especially comprises learners with parents who are workers
and peasants. A variety of rationales can be presented to explain these specific findings within the Chinese context.

First, we can refer to Confucian cultural values that play a role. A basic value embedded in Confucian culture encourages children to learn hard and work hard in order to attain a better position in society. This results in generational class mobility, and builds on a – hundred years old – tradition that students are selected on the base of their level of academic performance and not on their family background, also referred to as ‘‘KeJu’’ (Entrance Examination for higher education). Whatever a student’s family background, students will get an opportunity at a higher occupation/job pending a high performance in examinations..."

[Hopes]

It is interesting. I deleted it because I wanted to have an opportunity to read its entirety first. I won't have time to read it in-depth until tonight. At first glance, it appears to conclude that access to equal education is the key. That places more responsibility on teachers and schools and blows both of our positions, cultural and socioeconomic, out of the water.

[gg]

Originally Posted by Hopes

There's a larger percentage of white students at CMU than Asians. If you mean the percentage of the Asian student population compared to the US demographics, that's irrelevant since a significant percentage of CMU students are international/foreign. There's over a billion Asians in China alone. The world's population is 57% Asian.

Wrong again. There are only about 1,000 students out of 6,000 that are international. That being said, the US demographic would have to be considered 6 to 1.

It is obvious that Asians are very successful at CMU. Oh and please don't bring up the population of China as if 90%+ of them could magically afford and go to CMU. Please, stop living in fantasy land.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Wrong again. There are only about 1,000 students out of 6,000 that are international. That being said, the US demographic would have to be considered 6 to 1.

It is obvious that Asians are very successful at CMU. Oh and please don't bring up the population of China as if 90%+ of them could magically afford and go to CMU. Please, stop living in fantasy land.

Good point! The international students are from higher socioeconomic backgrounds.

[Goodjules]

Originally Posted by phatty5011

No you are right it isnt always parenting, but in majority cases it is. The students are the main issue obviously but when blaming either the teachers or the parents the parents are the reason kids dont do well, not the teachers. That is the point I am making.

In general this is true, but there are many exceptions. My best friend is a stay at home mom who is fluent in three languages. She raised all four of her kids to be fluent (read, write, speak) in all three languages. Her husband is a professor at a major university (endowed chair) and is considered an expert in his field. Two of their four children have learning disabilities and have struggled mightily throughout their school years. One is graduating from community college after four years in a two year program, the other is at university but has also needed far more than four years to complete her degree. Their other two children do not have learning disabilities and have been incredibly successful in their educations. I point this out because even with very well educated, involved, affluent parents two of their children did not do well in school. On the surface, it might have seemed that those kids weren't motivated or had uninvolved parents, bad teachers, etc. Their learning disabilities are not at all apparent when you meet them. It took professional assessments to find out what was wrong. Granted, had those two kids come from a less involved family it's unlikely they would have graduated from high school. Kids don't do well for lots of reasons. And there are many children out there with undiagnosed learning issues. It isn't as simple as blaming teachers or parents.

[goodgirl49]

Originally Posted by Goodjules

In general this is true, but there are many exceptions. My best friend is a stay at home mom who is fluent in three languages. She raised all four of her kids to be fluent (read, write, speak) in all three languages. Her husband is a professor at a major university (endowed chair) and is considered an expert in his field. Two of their four children have learning disabilities and have struggled mightily throughout their school years. One is graduating from community college after four years in a two year program, the other is at university but has also needed far more than four years to complete her degree. Their other two children do not have learning disabilities and have been incredibly successful in their educations. I point this out because even with very well educated, involved, affluent parents two of their children did not do well in school. On the surface, it might have seemed that those kids weren't motivated or had uninvolved parents, bad teachers, etc. Their learning disabilities are not at all apparent when you meet them. It took professional assessments to find out what was wrong. Granted, had those two kids come from a less involved family it's unlikely they would have graduated from high school. Kids don't do well for lots of reasons. And there are many children out there with undiagnosed learning issues. It isn't as simple as blaming teachers or parents.

Very well said! It's time people realized that not all children have equal abilities to do academic work. It's so wrong to blame the parents or teachers for their plight. I can imagine that your friend did the best she could with all 4 of her children. It's good that they had their learning issues diagnosed so they could work toward their potential.