What if Pittsburgh Annexed All Adjacent Suburbs? (McKeesport, Upper St. Clair: middle-class, for sale)

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by szug-bot

why is that surprising?

from reading this interesting thread, I'll say i doubt there is this animosity in pgh against surrounding municipalities.

Are you kidding? I see it all the time here.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by Copanut

Are you kidding? I see it all the time here.

Bingo

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by tyovan4

I like Councils of Governments - they help voluntarily regionalize municipal government services and provide subject matter expertise on issues that smaller municipalities may not have the depth or bandwidth for.

Shaler EMS is doing what you advocate. They have expanded into Hampton, and also picked up Etna (which switched from Seneca EMS).

Usually I'm not a fan of the 'Pittsburgh has unique and challenging topography' excuses that deflect attention from some of this region's problems. However, I think that emergency response is one area where it must be absolutely taken into account.
In so many places in this region, to go from Point A to Point C - you have to go through Point B. Otherwise, you're taking a detour along the scenic route through Points X, Y, and Z.
Since a bridge divides us in Etna from the City, I'd be very leery of having a bridge between us and our emergency responders. So while I do agree that there is a role for regionalization of municipal services (including emergency services), I do believe that the crazy topography here must be taken into account.

With all of this being said, when Etna suffered from a massive fire in a warehouse in the spring - mutual aid arrived from MANY neighboring communities. Very surprisingly to me, the City of Pittsburgh sent their professional firefighters (along with specialty resources) to help us. So I will certainly acknowledge and express my gratitude for that assistance which our neighbors across the river provided to us.

Yes, I was going to bring that up yesterday, but for some reason got distracted. My father was on the Upper Beaver Valley Council of Governments for a while, back in the 1990s. He certainly supported it. Here we have "DR (pronounced doctor) COG", the Denver Regional Council of Governments.

[tyovan4]

Originally Posted by szug-bot

why is that surprising?

from reading this interesting thread, I'll say i doubt there is this animosity in pgh against surrounding municipalities.

Because several years ago there was a fire in L'ville that was fairly large. The City didn't request mutual aid from Etna, even though we're right across the river. I asked a friend, who teaches at the Fire Academy, why they wouldn't have done so. He mentioned a union issue, about unionized professional firefighters not wanting to call-in volunteers for back up.

So I was surprised that the City wasn't interested in requesting assistance from a neighboring Borough in the past, but that they were willing to offer help to that Borough.

[Herodotus]

Sheraden didn't decline from neglect. Sheraden declined because Broadhead Manor was razed, and Westgate Village, a place full of Section 8 tenants, was closed. A large percentage of the people displaced from those communities moved to Sheraden, bringing all of their problems with them. Those people weren't going to just vanish, they were going to end up somewhere close by. Elliot, and Crafton Hts. got some of them, but Sheraden got more. The same thing is at work in Mt. Oliver, which has filled with people displaced from St. Clair Village.

[gg]

Originally Posted by szug-bot

why is that surprising?

from reading this interesting thread, I'll say i doubt there is this animosity in pgh against surrounding municipalities.

There is animosity from a lot of city residents as they feel superior than those that live outside the limits, but when it comes to fire departments and professionals, that would be meaningless. They no doubt will come running to help no matter where the fire or problem is. First responders rock.

[Independentthinking83]

Originally Posted by gg

There is animosity from a lot of city residents as they feel superior than those that live outside the limits, but when it comes to fire departments and professionals, that would be meaningless. They no doubt will come running to help no matter where the fire or problem is. First responders rock.

They do rock. I really think Pittsburgh contracting out its fire department is a great idea along with EMS.

Aside from that I don’t see mergers happening anytime soon. You need to show a tremendous benefit to do so, even then the culture of this region will be resistant to do it. There have been numbers studies over decades in favor of mergers. You won’t see people wanting to merge with the city nor will you see smaller municipalities merge with each other. Won’t happen.

If any merger needs to happen it needs to be the two biggest governments. Allegheny county and the city of Pittsburgh. You only need one county executive not a mayor with a county executive. Pittsburgh mayor and Pittsburgh city council should be eliminated. That will never happen either because the progressives will cry when they get marginalized and really become the tiny dot in Allegheny county. On the other hand the county residents outside the city won’t want to pay for the legacy pension mess the city has. Neither group would want that either. So it would never happen

[szug-bot]

Originally Posted by Herodotus

Sheraden didn't decline from neglect. Sheraden declined because Broadhead Manor was razed, and Westgate Village, a place full of Section 8 tenants, was closed. A large percentage of the people displaced from those communities moved to Sheraden, bringing all of their problems with them. Those people weren't going to just vanish, they were going to end up somewhere close by. Elliot, and Crafton Hts. got some of them, but Sheraden got more. The same thing is at work in Mt. Oliver, which has filled with people displaced from St. Clair Village.

you're right. i always am irked by the "city neglects" theory - that if a neighborhood goes downhill, its the city's fault. no, this is not a futuristic, sci-fi totalitarian society where the government is able to monitor and control every little thing.

its demographic trends, and economics, which are part of a much bigger picture than what the city council can manage/control.

sheridan is an amazing place, though - wide, meandering streets. some beautiful homes.

[Independentthinking83]

Originally Posted by szug-bot

you're right. i always am irked by the "city neglects" theory - that if a neighborhood goes downhill, its the city's fault. no, this is not a futuristic, sci-fi totalitarian society where the government is able to monitor and control every little thing.

its demographic trends, and economics, which are part of a much bigger picture than what the city council can manage/control.

sheridan is an amazing place, though - wide, meandering streets. some beautiful homes.

Ok fair enough. So what changed regarding the economics and demographic trends in Sheridan? How did it go from a once stable middle class neighborhood with its own high school? It was still a decent place into the mid 2000s.

Btw in 1997 PPS had 40,000 students enrolled, today it is around 23,000. There was 28,000 students when the last census was taken in 2010.

[szug-bot]

Originally Posted by Independentthinking83

Ok fair enough. So what changed regarding the economics and demographic trends in Sheridan? How did it go from a once stable middle class neighborhood with its own high school? It was still a decent place into the mid 2000s.

Btw in 1997 PPS had 40,000 students enrolled, today it is around 23,000. There was 28,000 students when the last census was taken in 2010.

i'm not sure about that, independent....by then, there was already a gutting of old timer middle class people ( to kennedy township, and elsewhere), and significant numbers of gun crime incidents.

the PPS - a dwindling population? thanks for the stat. no mayor will have the guts to challenge them , their shoddy management, and requests for higher taxes, even knowing that enrollment has declined so much!