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I wish Pittsburgh could even just annex the "struggling" suburbs---Wilkinsburg and Mt. Oliver---both of which would greatly benefit from being part of the city. Most of these other suburban jurisdictions seem to be able to handle themselves well, despite their declining populations.
Here is why it probably won’t ever happen. Old article from 2004, Allegheny City “North Side”. Annexation has been talked about since 1846 in Allegheny County.
Sound familiar? 1907 is 2004 is 2020.....
This parallels the best lists bragging rights among other things. Very familiar tones
“The advantages of consolidation were laid out in one piece of 1895 propaganda. There was talk about new efficiency and enhanced borrowing power, but what really seemed to excite supporters was the potential for bragging rights: "The Greater Pittsburgh, at the very outstart, without a single new furnace, would have a larger output of pig iron within city limits than any other State in the Union save one. Our tonnage upon river and rail would be larger than that of any city in the United States. ... There is only one Pittsburgh and there can be only one Greater Pittsburgh."
“No, really. Pittsburgh was struggling with considerable municipal debt and needed to grow its tax base. Just across the river was a prosperous city with much less debt and a full slate of municipal services. (In some respects, Allegheny did better by its citizens than Pittsburgh did: According to the pro-annexation camp's own propaganda, for example, Pittsburgh schools had twice as many students as Allegheny's, but they cost nearly three times as much to educate.) Annexing Allegheny allowed the city to grab a larger tax base, made up of citizens who already had adequate services.”
Interesting link, thanks for sharing.
"The more things change, the more they stay the same"
Yes it puts a lot of things in perspective. I spoke with somebody last week regarding municipal mergers. They said the central area of the north side had its own vibrant business district and Pittsburgh didn’t want it competing with downtown and wrecked it in the 1950s to make way for Allegheny center mall.
Looking at pictures. Allegheny city was a gem and a place people wanted to live. Had the merger never happened, likely it would’ve declined in population, but it’s structure probably remains intact. It probably remains solvent and not a shell of what it was. And it sounds like Pittsburgh would’ve gone bankrupt over 100 years ago. We would probably be talking about Allegheny city as the hip urban place not Pittsburgh or it’s east end. It was a cash grab to inflate population numbers and pound our chests for how great we are. Similar to the reasoning SCR wants the others to merge with Pittsburgh. Where is the benefit for those municipalities to do so? Did it benefit Allegheny city? That’s the key right there.
This is why there is such a distaste for municipal mergers. Can you trust the city? You can draw parallels with this article as well as other things we have in the city like the new park tax that just passed. It looks like a long history of not doing the right thing and poor decisions.
What do you mean unincorporated? Here in CO, all land is in some county. To annex to Denver, the entire annexing county has to vote in favor of the annexation, as well as the entire city of Denver.
All areas in PA are incorporated as either a city, a borough or a township-even the most remote locations. In many states, particularly in the west and south, what is not incorporated as a city is an unincorporated part of the county. The county provides municipal services and law enforcement is provided by the sheriff.
Pittsburgh came very close to consolidating with the county in 1929. It wasn't going to be a total merger, but a federated one, where the city would assume all county powers, plus some that were spelled out, while the local communities would retain the bulk of their independence. As originally drawn up, it required a yes vote in a majority of the municipalities, which it easily achieved by an 82 to 39 margin, with the strongest resistance coming from the now crappy communities of Clairton, Duquesne, and McKeesport. However, during the passage of the bill through the Senate, it was changed from a simple majority in each municipality, to a two thirds majority, which it failed to achieve by a narrow margin (the overall yes vote was just under 70%). Unlike what happened with Allegheny, this was actually fairly popular among the suburbs, with it gaining 63% of the suburban vote, and just a hair under two thirds when you subtract the three Mon Valley cities. Keep in mind that the legislature could set this up any way they wanted, as in the US, all power is divided between the states, and the Federal Government, and the states can set up local administration any way they see fit, including running it from the state capitol (obviously it's not politically feasible, but Harrisburg could dissolve every county, city, borough, and township tomorrow, and set it up anyway they liked, although they'd have to make arrangements for any debts, or such to be taken care of).
Last edited by Herodotus; 11-18-2019 at 08:45 PM..
Pittsburgh came very close to consolidating with the county in 1929. It wasn't going to be a total merger, but a federated one, where the city would assume all county powers, plus some that were spelled out, while the local communities would retain the bulk of their independence. As originally drawn up, it required a yes vote in a majority of the municipalities, which it easily achieved by an 82 to 39 margin, with the strongest resistance coming from the now crappy communities of Clairton, Duquesne, and McKeesport. However, during the passage of the bill through the Senate, it was changed from a simple majority in each municipality, to a two thirds majority, which it failed to achieve by a narrow margin (the overall yes vote was just under 70%). Unlike what happened with Allegheny, this was actually fairly popular among the suburbs, with it gaining 63% of the suburban vote, and just a hair under two thirds when you subtract the three Mon Valley cities. Keep in mind that the legislature could set this up any way they wanted, as in the US, all power is divided between the states, and the Federal Government, and the states can set up local administration any way they see fit, including running it from the state capitol (obviously it's not politically feasible, but Harrisburg could dissolve every county, city, borough, and township tomorrow, and set it up anyway they liked, although they'd have to make arrangements for any debts, or such to be taken care of).
You are correct. I think there was a second vote in favor of that in the 1930s. The percentage that it passed with back then would probably be flipped against the merger today. Pittsburgh has nothing better to offer and that’s the problem. If a merger was going to happen on that scale it would’ve been back then. There is a long history now of decline, act 47, high taxes, Allegheny city merger, and many other things that would make it unrealistic. Any merger would have to be federally mandated. And again they had to sweeten the deal back then. The municipalities would’ve kept their independence. But the cities of McKeesport and clariton, both thriving then didn’t want to become the next Allegheny city where it was a horrible merger and pretty much ruined that part of town.
No way the Allegheny county executive is going to relinquish power to Pittsburgh’s mayor, no matter who it is. Allegheny county executive is a more powerful position than Pittsburgh’s mayor.
Nobody trusts the city to do the right thing. There is a history
Yes it puts a lot of things in perspective. I spoke with somebody last week regarding municipal mergers. They said the central area of the north side had its own vibrant business district and Pittsburgh didn’t want it competing with downtown and wrecked it in the 1950s to make way for Allegheny center mall.
Looking at pictures. Allegheny city was a gem and a place people wanted to live. Had the merger never happened, likely it would’ve declined in population, but it’s structure probably remains intact. It probably remains solvent and not a shell of what it was. And it sounds like Pittsburgh would’ve gone bankrupt over 100 years ago. We would probably be talking about Allegheny city as the hip urban place not Pittsburgh or it’s east end. It was a cash grab to inflate population numbers and pound our chests for how great we are. Similar to the reasoning SCR wants the others to merge with Pittsburgh. Where is the benefit for those municipalities to do so? Did it benefit Allegheny city? That’s the key right there.
This is why there is such a distaste for municipal mergers. Can you trust the city? You can draw parallels with this article as well as other things we have in the city like the new park tax that just passed. It looks like a long history of not doing the right thing and poor decisions.
the bold above is totally absurd.
allegheny city, i want to point out, was likely this "gem" because IT WAS BUILT FROM WEALTH GENERATED BY THE MIGHTY INDUSTRIES...yes, those, like in smoky, dirty Pittsburgh with its slovaks and others risking injury if not death in pre-OSHA times.
i do not take ANYTHING like your second paragraph as 100 % factual - over time, history is distorted, reported incorrectly, or regurgitated to fit people's perception of a time. before allegheny center, the central north side was likely a run down, near slum, like much of the city had been, with people heading to the suburbs in earnest.
The Mon Valley cities are also far from the heart of Pittsburgh, which back then, would have made them feel even more like independent places. McKeesport especially, which is why while the vote was fairly close in Duquesne, and Clairton, (56%, and 58% against, it was nearly 8-1 against in McKeesport.
allegheny city, i want to point out, was likely this "gem" because IT WAS BUILT FROM WEALTH GENERATED BY THE MIGHTY INDUSTRIES...yes, those, like in smoky, dirty Pittsburgh with its slovaks and others risking injury if not death in pre-OSHA times.
i do not take ANYTHING like your second paragraph as 100 % factual - over time, history is distorted, reported incorrectly, or regurgitated to fit people's perception of a time. before allegheny center, the central north side was likely a run down, near slum, like much of the city had been, with people heading to the suburbs in earnest.
Allegheny City was going to decline regardless of whether it was annexed or not, although the decline probably would have been more gradual than it became. The rich were already heading to Sewickley, with more to soon follow. Once cars became common, the wealthy of that era just weren't going to want to live in a rowhouse heavy, narrow street area like Allegheny anymore. The allure of suburban living, with yards, space, and quiet, and away from industry, and the underclass (which Allegheny had), was always going to be too much to overcome. Once the outflow began, it was going to become a torrent. When wealthy areas begin to decline, it's frequently rapid, and total, because the residents have the money to move elsewhere, and the new, poorer residents who move in, don't have the money to maintain structures built for wealthy people. Places like Lawrenceville can sometimes hold up better because they're full of people without the means to move away. It took the better part of the 20th Century, and decades of experience with the suburbs, before a certain subset of the population decided that for them, the drawbacks of the suburbs, along with certain pluses of urban living (and like any area, there are drawbacks to living in the suburbs), outweighed the drawbacks of the city, resulting in the phenomenon of gentrification.
As for the Central North Side, it indeed had become rundown, but it was far from being beyond salvation. It's just that the people of the postwar era couldn't see the potential of the place. You have to remember that the buildings in that area were mostly 60-90 years old. Most of Pittsburgh's central core was of similar age and layout, and included the most worn out parts of the city. Thus, in the public mind, the narrow streets, and the row, and other closely built houses that we see as so charming today, screamed SLUM to people in 1945. It's similar to way you would have looked at a 57 Chevy in the late 60s; time for the scrap heap. This was the case nearly everywhere. It wasn't until former slums in Greenwhich Village, and Georgetown were gentrified, that anyone would have even dreamed that these types of areas could ever become desirable again without total reconstruction. The real turning point was possibly when at the end of the 1950s, Society Hill in Philly, a largely intact area full of structures dating to the early decades of the 19th Century that had declined to slum status, and that the city wanted to see razed; was rescued by people who saw potential beneath the grime and decay, and who turned the area into a showplace. This opened some eyes in Pittsburgh, but not soon enough to save central Allegheny, although it did happen soon enough to short circuit plans to level Manchester, and the Mexican War Streets. It's a shame though, because there were many gorgeous structures in central Allegheny, and if the area could have been restored, it would today be the heart of a truly spectacular area.
Last edited by Herodotus; 11-18-2019 at 10:22 PM..
allegheny city, i want to point out, was likely this "gem" because IT WAS BUILT FROM WEALTH GENERATED BY THE MIGHTY INDUSTRIES...yes, those, like in smoky, dirty Pittsburgh with its slovaks and others risking injury if not death in pre-OSHA times.
i do not take ANYTHING like your second paragraph as 100 % factual - over time, history is distorted, reported incorrectly, or regurgitated to fit people's perception of a time. before allegheny center, the central north side was likely a run down, near slum, like much of the city had been, with people heading to the suburbs in earnest.
Allegheny city was beautiful. Pittsburgh wanted the money and resources to keep from going bankrupt. The state forced the merger or it wouldn’t have happened. Once annexed they let it go and become neglected. Everybody else saw what happened to Allegheny City. It isn’t hard to understand....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herodotus
Allegheny City was going to decline regardless of whether it was annexed or not, although the decline probably would have been more gradual than it became. The rich were already heading to Sewickley, with more to soon follow. Once cars became common, the wealthy of that era just weren't going to want to live in a rowhouse heavy, narrow street area like Allegheny anymore. The allure of suburban living, with yards, space, and quiet, and away from industry, and the underclass (which Allegheny had), was always going to be too much to overcome. Once the outflow began, it was going to become a torrent. When wealthy areas begin to decline, it's frequently rapid, and total, because the residents have the money to move elsewhere, and the new, poorer residents who move in, don't have the money to maintain structures built for wealthy people. Places like Lawrenceville can sometimes hold up better because they're full of people without the means to move away. It took the better part of the 20th Century, and decades of experience with the suburbs, before a certain subset of the population decided that for them, the drawbacks of the suburbs, along with certain pluses of urban living (and like any area, there are drawbacks to living in the suburbs), outweighed the drawbacks of the city, resulting in the phenomenon of gentrification.
As for the Central North Side, it indeed had become rundown, but it was far from being beyond salvation. It's just that the people of the postwar era couldn't see the potential of the place. You have to remember that the buildings in that area were mostly 60-90 years old. Most of Pittsburgh's central core was of similar age and layout, and included the most worn out parts of the city. Thus, in the public mind, the narrow streets, and the row, and other closely built houses that we see as so charming today, screamed SLUM to people in 1945. It's similar to way you would have looked at a 57 Chevy in the late 60s; time for the scrap heap. This was the case nearly everywhere. It wasn't until former slums in Greenwhich Village, and Georgetown were gentrified, that anyone would have even dreamed that these types of areas could ever become desirable again without total reconstruction. The real turning point was possibly when at the end of the 1950s, Society Hill in Philly, a largely intact area full of structures dating to the early decades of the 19th Century that had declined to slum status, and that the city wanted to see razed; was rescued by people who saw potential beneath the grime and decay, and who turned the area into a showplace. This opened some eyes in Pittsburgh, but not soon enough to save central Allegheny, although it did happen soon enough to short circuit plans to level Manchester, and the Mexican War Streets. It's a shame though, because there were many gorgeous structures in central Allegheny, and if the area could have been restored, it would today be the heart of a truly spectacular area.
Who said Allegheny City was going to decline? I’ve never read that anywhereThere is no evidence to
Suggest that happening. Plenty of evidence to support it would go On and probably thrive. Anyways here is The PG article from 2007
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