Pittsburgh Area Development - Request for Info & Updates (Butler: Home Depot, fence)

[gg]

Originally Posted by burghophilia-21

Nah, I wasn't around then. I have a few perspectives on that era -- in fact, over Christmas, i was talking to my oldest cousin, who happened to be a freshman at Duquesne when MLK was killed. He recalled the strange emptiness of downtown during the following days, and noted that, even though he was a young, "white," (Italian-American) kid from Ellwood City who supported the civil rights movement, those were scary days. At some point, one of his paisans from Ellwood came up and drove him home.

I was too young for MLK's death. I would imagine that would have been pretty crazy. I think we have progressed on heck of a lot since those days. Really wasn't that long ago.

Thanks for the story.

[gg]

Originally Posted by eschaton

You literally said "no black communities creating a mess" dude. That's the only reason I brought it up.

I reread what I wrote and it wasn't very well thought out. My point was more people were leaving due to lack of jobs and had very little to do with anything else. Our BIG industry was lost. People left and it was people of all races. Rough times. Penn Circle and the Civic Arena were just not that big of a deal because we were dying no matter what. We recreated this city. For that I am pretty proud of this place. I get pissed at us going backwards and we certainly did over the past 6 years downtown, but some areas are going very well. The Strip all the way up to Lawrenceville is pretty amazing, regardless of the style of buildings. People are living there and it is doing better than in years past by a lot.

Sorry for the confusion. My post you mentioned wasn't well written at all. I just don't feel like rereading what I am typing today.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by svband76

I know what it is to pick up garbage constantly. It is such a serious problem everywhere, not only Marshall-Shadeland but downtown, the Strip District, much of it generated by homeless druggie camps but also just by general stupid inconsiderate people. It's a huge help towards keeping property values from declining.

Much to erieguy's chagrin there is a clean-up scheduled this Saturday morning at 10 AM for the Woods Run business district. There are already a record number of people committed to showing up to volunteer. To turn a neighborhood around you need to start small with things like picking up litter and making yourself visible while doing so to show others that people are starting to care about the neighborhood again. Then people will feel more inspired to join in themselves. Then momentum builds and you work towards mass-contacting 311 to have blighted properties removed (the city actually JUST tore down THREE long-blighted properties due to our efforts). As your numbers grow you can successfully lobby Allegheny CleanWays to sponsor a "Dump Buster" event to provide resources to clean vacant lots and hillsides of illegally-dumped appliances, tires, TV's, construction materials, etc. Then local media sources like the North Side Chronicle might take notice and publish an article, which enhances the visibility.

Eventually as prospective developers see the neighborhood's own residents trying to work to turn things around they will feel more confident in deciding to invest in the neighborhood. The city's Public Works crews will pay more attention to the neighborhood as they see residents pitching in (this has already happened, as the division director already met with me unprovoked when he pulled over when he saw me along California Avenue to let me know they are going to try to ramp up efforts on their end, too).

You don't START with narcing on the drug dealers or gang members, which erieguy thinks is a good idea for me to do (thereby making myself a target). I know who they are. They know who I am. We have come to a mutual understanding that me cleaning up after their "clients" as they drop needles everywhere is actually in their best interest so neighborhood kids don't get hurt, thereby making Zone 1 police more proactive. You start small and grow UP to that point. Once the dealers realize there is a growing mob of neighbors working from the ground up to improve the neighborhood they will begin to scatter like roaches to other areas.

Our neighborhood is spitting distance from Downtown. It could and should get better. I don't expect my neighborhood to become Lawrenceville or Shadyside (and none of us here want that because it will lead to mass displacement in our heavily-Black neighborhood). I want our neighborhood to build more and more housing options with developers required to set aside 10% of their units as "affordable" so even as more people move into the neighborhood and as property values rise as FEW poor Black people are displaced as humanly possible. I was gentrified out of a neighborhood that went from working-class to trendy/chic while I lived there (yes, it's still gentrification if rich white tech bros price out working-class whites). As such I don't want to see my neighbors gentrified out, yet I DO want to see lots of new development. This is why I'm so pro-developer. I think Marshall-Shadeland can become a model neighborhood of growing its population, reputation, and property values WITHOUT mass displacement IF enough new units are built in the coming years to keep rents stabilized. I can't think of one majority-Black, stable, middle-class neighborhood of the city. Maybe wpipkins2 knows of one (Chartiers City perhaps?). Why can't my neighborhood eventually be 60% Black AND desirable?

[erieguy]

It’s funny how you think it’s to my chagrin by cleaning up an area of litter when I’ve said many times it’s a great thing, and not just for your area. This should no doubt have the criminals fleeing like roaches lickety split, folks fleeing to the area, and the city bailing the area out.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by burghophilia-21

Just another thought on this -- I guess my only objection is viewing this in such "Manichaean" terms -- sure there was plain old racism driving this, although I think it is reasonable to distinguish, Northern, "white ethnic" racism, or simply "prejudice" from the more pernicious, and more routinely, violent/deadly version in the South. Again, to what extent are the prejudices entangled with economic concerns, or concerns about maintaining "ethnic" identify (i.e., not "white" identify, but for instance, Italian, or Polish identity) in America. I assume some (or perhaps several) Ph.d candidate(s) has written a dissertation on the Model Cities program in Pittsburgh, but it is fascinating to read the articles on Polish Hill's opposition. Here is another, from September 1968, when Polish Hill residents/leaders reacted negatively to a plan to build 10 (essentially) public housing units in the 3400 block of Ridgeway St (page 14):

https://news.google.com/newspapers?n...rontpage&hl=en

As far as I can tell, the units were never built.

To be clear, I don't think systematic racism is a matter of personal culpability. The real ability of people to freely make choices is limited (perhaps nonexistent) in the face of broader societal trends. The very fact that we see the same set of dynamics happen across 95%+ of neighborhoods during the mid/late 20th century (either white flight, or extreme white hostility to black residents, with almost no cases of peaceful integration) means that the individual intentions didn't really amount to much.

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by svband76

East Liberty used to have a great and very popular Sears store up until the late 1980s I think. The pre-gentrified years.

Up until 1999. Home Depot replaced the Sears store in 2000. This was the first major retailer to setup shop in East Liberty.

[wpipkins2]

The new FNB Tower is taking shape and is highly visible from certain areas around town. The new tower is visible for the Butler Street business district in Lawrenceville. As you cross the street near 40th St the tower is seen rising in the distant. The Bulter has an unobstructed view of the tower.

The new tower view from the 400 block of Seventh Ave is imposing. The tower is shoulder to shoulder with the Golf Tower.

Construction updates by William Pipkins, on Flickr[/IMG]

[eschaton]

Some further information from an upcoming ZBA hearing on the proposed 220-unit market rate apartment building which will be constructed in Larimer between Hamilton and Frankstown.

Pretty generic design, but I wouldn't expect something pricey in that location. I do wish that the building entrance/commercial space fronted on Hamilton rather than Frankstown however. Frankstown is zoned commercial there however, and there are a few storefronts, particularly as the former garage across the street has been converted into small-scale retail. Maybe it will actually become a viable area with a few hundred additional residents.

[burghophilia-32]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Some further information from an upcoming ZBA hearing on the proposed 220-unit market rate apartment building which will be constructed in Larimer between Hamilton and Frankstown.

Pretty generic design, but I wouldn't expect something pricey in that location. I do wish that the building entrance/commercial space fronted on Hamilton rather than Frankstown however. Frankstown is zoned commercial there however, and there are a few storefronts, particularly as the former garage across the street has been converted into small-scale retail. Maybe it will actually become a viable area with a few hundred additional residents.

Wow - that will be great for that area. Hamilton is now part of my typical route on my "tour d'East End." So, you've already got that "fancy" coffee shop down on the other end of Hamilton (near Fifth), and you can literally see the new apartments across from Target from the intersection of Hamilton/East Liberty, so this is just to say that I don't necessarily see this as an area that is "apart" from other East Liberty development (from a recreational standpoint, it will also be great when the Brilliant Line is developed).

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by burghophilia-32

Wow - that will be great for that area. Hamilton is now part of my typical route on my "tour d'East End." So, you've already got that "fancy" coffee shop down on the other end of Hamilton (near Fifth), and you can literally see the new apartments across from Target from the intersection of Hamilton/East Liberty, so this is just to say that I don't necessarily see this as an area that is "apart" from other East Liberty development (from a recreational standpoint, it will also be great when the Brilliant Line is developed).

There's also East End Brewing (which has a little pizza place inside it), Goodlander Cocktails, and a few things like gyms/personal trainers, a theater, and some offices. But most of this area is still pretty depopulated/industrial. Like, the entire Frankstown/Hamilton corridor through Latimer had around 30 residents in 2020. So there's not really anybody to displace.