Pittsburgh Area Development - Request for Info & Updates (California: new house, subdivision)

[anthony_c55]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Pittsburgh just secured $150 million in funding for the Downtown-to-Oakland BRT project from federal sources.

The project is now slated to begin construction this fall.

That's great news.

[airwave09]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Pittsburgh just secured $150 million in funding for the Downtown-to-Oakland BRT project from federal sources.

The project is now slated to begin construction this fall.

Great! This should have happened years ago because it's a no brainer to have rapid transit between these two neighborhoods. What needs to happen next is a T extension, at the very least through the Strip to Lawrenceville as there is an underused rail right-of-way that already exists there.

[qwerty01]

That simply makes too much sense for PRT to actually put together a halfway decent proposal to the Federal Government to pay for. I agree with you though - build the rails out of the Union Station, down the busway until 26th street, cross over Liberty on the existing overpass, then run it down Railroad St utilizing the existing railway until you hit the Pittsburgh Zoo parking lot. (for anyone not aware just use Google Maps) It would have large ridership numbers.

Oh and while we're talking about no-brainer expansions, why in the h*** doesn't PRT build two stations at the ends of the E Warrendale Ave business district and then route the Blue line through Allentown?

[airwave09]

Originally Posted by qwerty01

That simply makes too much sense for PRT to actually put together a halfway decent proposal to the Federal Government to pay for. I agree with you though - build the rails out of the Union Station, down the busway until 26th street, cross over Liberty on the existing overpass, then run it down Railroad St utilizing the existing railway until you hit the Pittsburgh Zoo parking lot. (for anyone not aware just use Google Maps) It would have large ridership numbers.

Are you talking about the east busway overpass to 26th street? Yes that could work as well. I was thinking having it come down 21st street since that's basically the core of the activity in the strip and where the rail line on railroad st. begins. It would probably be cheaper to use the existing overpass at 26th though and just have an elevated station/walkways at 21st so people could cross over liberty and end up right in the heart of the strip.

As for further stations along this line, it would make sense to put a station on 26th street probably at Railroad where there's currently an old run down industrial building. Probably one by 31st, then at 38th right next to the Arsenal apartments in Lawrenceville. Not sure about the next one maybe 47th? Then one at McCandless. As for the rest maybe have one at 57th or just go all the way to the Zoo/Morningside/HP.

Oh and while we're talking about no-brainer expansions, why in the h*** doesn't PRT build two stations at the ends of the E Warrendale Ave business district and then route the Blue line through Allentown?

I don't know the answer to that but as of right now they just use it as a bypass route if there are issues with the tunnel or flooding at Station Square. Now the ideal scenario would be if this line could be reconfigured to also go down the other direction of Arlington and on to service Knoxville, Mt. Oliver, Arlington and then down the hill to Southside as well. These areas feel disconnected and have poor transit connectivity as it is and this would help to alleviate those issues.

Edit: Come think of it, why not just tack on another river crossing to Oakland from Southside? Being able to ride the T all the way from the South hills directly to Oakland bypassing downtown and not having to transfer to BRT would be very convenient for many people who work in the east end.

[eschaton]

For various reasons, an extension of the T over the East Busway doesn't make sense, unfortunately.

1. There are train tracks underneath the pavement of the East Busway, but they are not the narrow-gage tracks the T uses. They would need to be ripped up and replaced if they wanted to use T cars.

2. The technology that the T uses is worse than the busses on the East Busway, with lower maximum speeds.

3. The T is much more expensive to operate, with lower farebox recovery. The T always operates on a loss, really it should cost more like $3 to $5, but they let the bus fares subsidize it.

Literally the only advantage that the T has over a BRT system is that some people hold rail in higher prestige than buses. It doesn't even work as a proper LRT system, because it was very clearly an upgrade of old streetcar lines.

There have been off-again, on-again plans to have a private line, separate from PRT, which would resurrect commuter rail through the Strip District on the old AVRR line, going through Lawrenceville all the way out to Oakmont, and maybe New Kensington. That said, Buncher's redevelopment of much of the lower strip destroyed a good section of the unused railroad ROW, which now terminates as a stub in front of Consumer Fresh Produce, so the original plans to end the line in the Convention Center are 100% dead.

Regarding why PRT has not resurrected the Brown Line, which went through Allentown, my understanding is that the steep grade of Arlington Avenue and the antiquated nature of the electrical system means there are huge capacity issues. I believe the system cannot even handle one streetcar ascending and one descending through the corridor at the same time. It is a shame because the existing Blue Line is all but useless when it comes to actual utility to people who live in the city, as it's strung through very low-population portions of the Southern Hilltop.

[Higherho]

I think the SPINE study for the rail (that they spent 7 million dollars on btw) to go out to Oakland would be an interesting read to see what it would have cost and such. I do not buy the “Cost of rail” as not an option. If they would have done it to Oakland, they would be getting over 30,000 people a day (40k was mentioned in one of the BRT proposal slides). While I agree LRT is more expensive than normal bus, the cost for PRT’s electrical buss fleet and garage operations / characters to support that would balance out the cost. In my rail thread I just made, the CEO pointed out that the cost to replacing rail with bus would not be cost effective at all. So I am curious what their thoughts would be on the extension? If they got at least 500,000 million for the government to do it.

The Allentown line, I think that will come back and the library line will be sacked. In the 25 year plan, they mentioned the increase population in the Allentown area was a consideration. I would prefer the Allentown line over Library but I would feel sad for the communities on that library line stretch. They also mentioned for the train upgrades, it would be easier for the trains to go on those grades and they will be able to go faster.

[eschaton]

Looks like the City's Edge project in Uptown - which has been stuck in development hell for seven years - will be going forward soon, with financing having been secured.

As a reminder, this project includes 110 units of residential (92 affordable), and 39,000 square feet of retail space.


Credit: Pittsburgh Business Times

[Knepper3]

Yeah, there are many advantages to a LRT over BRT. Maybe not how Pgh has it done. I personally hate using public transportation but meetings in DC it just makes too much sense not to use it. Logistically, LRT makes more sense in many situations. Pgh does have the issue of topology so it will cost more to do anything here.

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by qwerty01

That simply makes too much sense for PRT to actually put together a halfway decent proposal to the Federal Government to pay for. I agree with you though - build the rails out of the Union Station, down the busway until 26th street, cross over Liberty on the existing overpass, then run it down Railroad St utilizing the existing railway until you hit the Pittsburgh Zoo parking lot. (for anyone not aware just use Google Maps) It would have large ridership numbers.

Oh and while we're talking about no-brainer expansions, why in the h*** doesn't PRT build two stations at the ends of the E Warrendale Ave business district and then route the Blue line through Allentown?

Halfway decent proposals led to the construction of the Northshore Connector and the East Busway extension from Wilkinsburg to Swissvale…..Did I mention the West Busway? All of these projects were funded in the 2000s

[airwave09]

Originally Posted by Higherho

I think the SPINE study for the rail (that they spent 7 million dollars on btw) to go out to Oakland would be an interesting read to see what it would have cost and such. I do not buy the “Cost of rail” as not an option. If they would have done it to Oakland, they would be getting over 30,000 people a day (40k was mentioned in one of the BRT proposal slides). While I agree LRT is more expensive than normal bus, the cost for PRT’s electrical buss fleet and garage operations / characters to support that would balance out the cost. In my rail thread I just made, the CEO pointed out that the cost to replacing rail with bus would not be cost effective at all. So I am curious what their thoughts would be on the extension? If they got at least 500,000 million for the government to do it.

The Allentown line, I think that will come back and the library line will be sacked. In the 25 year plan, they mentioned the increase population in the Allentown area was a consideration. I would prefer the Allentown line over Library but I would feel sad for the communities on that library line stretch. They also mentioned for the train upgrades, it would be easier for the trains to go on those grades and they will be able to go faster.

Notice that the "cost of rail" argument is only a thing here in the states. In countries with actual functioning transit systems that don't prioritize cars they don't whine and complain about transit costs because they actually have vision and are concerned about the long term return on their investment.

That would be sad if the Library line goes away since I've used it numerous times for the return trip after biking the GAP from the point through McKeesport then picking up the Montour Trail from Clairton to Library which is a nice 31 mile mostly car free ride.