Pittsburgh Area Development - Request for Info & Updates (Allentown: top neighborhoods, camp)

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by svband76

I feel sometimes like Bakery Square is a whole different universe of people, businesses devoid of Pittsburgh authenticity. I'm glad it seems like it's thriving over there but I rarely frequent the area.

It's not my favorite place either. We used to shop at the Learning Express until it closed for the kiddos, and my wife still looks for furniture in West Elm. We've also tried Galley at Bakery Square and Alta Via Pizza a few times, but it didn't really pan out for the family. I don't see us going back there to eat any time soon.

That said, I'm glad the strip mall further down Penn is going to be replaced. It's a 100% inappropriate design for a location in the heart of the city.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by eschaton

A major expansion of Bakery Square is in the works, which will ultimately extend it to include:

1. The entire "Village of Eastside" strip mall.
2. The vacant lot closer to Target where Club One used to be.
3. The "Matthews building" on the other side of Bakery Square purchased by Walnut Capital a few years back.

Between this and the ongoing redevelopment of the Shakespeare Street Giant Eagle site, this segment of Penn will be unrecognizable in 5-10 years.

It's a shame that the Village of Shadyside gated community is right in the middle of this zone, with a blank wall facing Penn. I recognize why this was done when it was built, but it seems like a huge missed opportunity now.

Don't worry. I'm sure the merry band of NIMBYs who dwell within the Village of Shadyside will be out in full force to voice their opposition to Bakery Square's expansion plans.

[gg]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Don't worry. I'm sure the merry band of NIMBYs who dwell within the Village of Shadyside will be out in full force to voice their opposition to Bakery Square's expansion plans.

Do you think they will? Bakery Square is a huge success for Pittsburgh. You should have seen that area in the 80's.

That little Village of Shadyside is kind of cool. Some greenery in a concrete jungle. The greenery can't be enjoyed by the public due to it being private, but it is still some greenery as opposed to tons of surface parking lots. I wish Pittsburgh would have more underground parking and more green space in places like Bakery Square however, but it is better than some. Still very successful! Heck we have a Google. Small, but it is there.

[gg]

Originally Posted by eschaton

That said, I'm glad the strip mall further down Penn is going to be replaced. It's a 100% inappropriate design for a location in the heart of the city.

There strip mall where Tuesday Morning and that mattress place is? I think Tuesday Morning closed as well as Performance bike shop. Maybe it is just going to empty and all be torn down. According to an ownership map that I posted years ago, that McDonalds is a separate property and is off limits to developers. Kind of odd plans will have to work around that little lot in the middle.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by gg

Do you think they will? Bakery Square is a huge success for Pittsburgh. You should have seen that area in the 80's.

He's referring to how some members of that gated community have done everything in their power to try and block the redevelopment of the Shakespeare Street Giant Eagle site (which is going forward now). There were many excuses for why they were opposed, from shadows being cast on their property to concerns about additional congestion to a lovely woman who claimed that the 200+ unit apartment was "not compatible with an urban area."

IIRC they screwed with the development of the Bakery Square townhouses in a minor way as well, I think by ensuring there was no back way out of the subdivision, again because they were concerned about congestion on "their streets."

Originally Posted by gg

There strip mall where Tuesday Morning and that mattress place is? I think Tuesday Morning closed as well as Performance bike shop. Maybe it is just going to empty and all be torn down. According to an ownership map that I posted years ago, that McDonalds is a separate property and is off limits to developers. Kind of odd plans will have to work around that little lot in the middle.

Yes, that's the strip mall. Virtually the only times I use it is to got to the Petland to get fish food when I'm in a bind (they have a much better selection of fish stuff than Petsmart, which is basically just a cat/dog store). I had to go to Staples once recently as well.

The Mcdonald's is not on a separate parcel any longer, though I do seem to recall that it was in the past. Walnut Capital owns everything from East Liberty Boulevard down to the Busway and can develop as they see fit.

I do kind of hope they find a use for the old post office (which houses Trader Joe's) and the three-story building at the corner of Penn and East Liberty Boulevard, though it seems like they're looking at higher scale on Penn than this.

[gg]

Originally Posted by eschaton

He's referring to how some members of that gated community have done everything in their power to try and block the redevelopment of the Shakespeare Street Giant Eagle site (which is going forward now). There were many excuses for why they were opposed, from shadows being cast on their property to concerns about additional congestion to a lovely woman who claimed that the 200+ unit apartment was "not compatible with an urban area."

IIRC they screwed with the development of the Bakery Square townhouses in a minor way as well, I think by ensuring there was no back way out of the subdivision, again because they were concerned about congestion on "their streets."



Yes, that's the strip mall. Virtually the only times I use it is to got to the Petland to get fish food when I'm in a bind (they have a much better selection of fish stuff than Petsmart, which is basically just a cat/dog store). I had to go to Staples once recently as well.

The Mcdonald's is not on a separate parcel any longer, though I do seem to recall that it was in the past. Walnut Capital owns everything from East Liberty Boulevard down to the Busway and can develop as they see fit.

I do kind of hope they find a use for the old post office (which houses Trader Joe's) and the three-story building at the corner of Penn and East Liberty Boulevard, though it seems like they're looking at higher scale on Penn than this.

Wow,I always thought that McDonalds was a stand alone. Wonder what the plans are for that huge area? It sure is successful. Hope it keeps growing and adds much needed tax revenue for the city.

The Trader Joe’s building is pretty nice, but Pittsburgh loves to tear things down.

They are moving a lot of dirt around. Will be fun to see how it turns out.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by gg

Wow,I always thought that McDonalds was a stand alone. Wonder what the plans are for that huge area? It sure is successful. Hope it keeps growing and adds much needed tax revenue for the city.

There's an early rendering here, but this is just conceptual:



I don't think we will see that level of density ultimately, as it shows the space packed tight with buildings taller than anything currently in Bakery Square. Plus, a few of them look like office buildings, which I don't see there being demand for any time soon. We will see.

[gg]

Originally Posted by eschaton

There's an early rendering here, but this is just conceptual:



I don't think we will see that level of density ultimately, as it shows the space packed tight with buildings taller than anything currently in Bakery Square. Plus, a few of them look like office buildings, which I don't see there being demand for any time soon. We will see.

Well it if was 1/2 that, it would be pretty amazing compared to what we had there in the early 90's. That region is doing quite well. Shame downtown is such a mess, but if you just deal with the East End, Pittsburgh becomes pretty nice. Let downtown just fall apart and focus on smaller pockets for now. Go Bakery Square, go.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by eschaton

There's an early rendering here, but this is just conceptual:



I don't think we will see that level of density ultimately, as it shows the space packed tight with buildings taller than anything currently in Bakery Square. Plus, a few of them look like office buildings, which I don't see there being demand for any time soon. We will see.

That rendering is fantastic! Ideally MOST of that development will be hundreds of new condominiums (not apartments). Millennials are a massive demographic, but we are aging. More and more of us are seeking to transition from renting to owning as we enter our 40's. Gen Z is MUCH smaller than the Millennials, so I think we will eventually hit a market saturation point where this constant stream of new RENTAL development will lead to a glut. Meanwhile mid-range condos (not the dumpy dated ones like at Chatham Center or near 5th & Neville or the luxury ones like you have otherwise Downtown and in the East End) are scarce in this city. Hundreds of new condos at Bakery Square 3.0 could really be a game-changer.

Originally Posted by gg

Well it if was 1/2 that, it would be pretty amazing compared to what we had there in the early 90's. That region is doing quite well. Shame downtown is such a mess, but if you just deal with the East End, Pittsburgh becomes pretty nice. Let downtown just fall apart and focus on smaller pockets for now. Go Bakery Square, go.

Cities reinvent themselves. Always have. Always will. Downtown is a mess now but will bounce back. More conversion of office space to residential needs to occur Downtown. Get several thousand more people living Downtown, and it is able to function despite the "non-essentials" still working from home in various neighborhoods outside Downtown.

Just look at how the Strip District is exploding now. We went to pick up pizza from Pizzeria Davide (great pizza, by the way) on a rainy Sunday afternoon recently and had to park BLOCKS away (outbound). When I lived in Polish Hill you could ALWAYS find easy street parking pretty much anywhere east of 25th Street or so on Penn or the surrounding streets. We parked on what I believe was 29th Street and had to walk the three blocks to get our pizza. The fact that the Strip was that jammed on a rainy non-holiday/non-event Sunday afternoon shows that adding a few thousand apartments can really help to reinvigorate a neighborhood.

I believe in the next decade we will have a very vibrant corridor of development extending from Downtown northeastward all the way through Lawrenceville---all of the "gap teeth" in the urban fabric between the eastern reaches of the Strip District and Lower Lawrenceville will be filled in. I also expect some sort of major development to finally come to fruition in Polish Hill on the Herron Avenue "S"-curve site, adjacent to the Herron Avenue BRT station.

I just hope the love extends further into the North Side. Eschaton encouraged me with a recent reply about all of the development occurring here, but it is almost uniformly in the "Lower" North Side (flat gentrified/gentrifying areas closer to Downtown). Perry South/Perry Hilltop, Perry North/Observatory Hill, Marshall-Shadeland, and California-Kirkbride all continue to languish (albeit the latter has benefitted somewhat from the new affordable housing project near the Columbus Avenue Bridge).

[svband76]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

I just hope the love extends further into the North Side. Eschaton encouraged me with a recent reply about all of the development occurring here, but it is almost uniformly in the "Lower" North Side (flat gentrified/gentrifying areas closer to Downtown). Perry South/Perry Hilltop, Perry North/Observatory Hill, Marshall-Shadeland, and California-Kirkbride all continue to languish (albeit the latter has benefitted somewhat from the new affordable housing project near the Columbus Avenue Bridge).

Maybe Gentries just don't like doing Pittsburgh hills. Some of my fav places are Spring Hill, Troy Hill, Brookline (ooh, the tunnels!) ... I'm surprised they're still pretty authentic Pittsburgh old time little communities still. I'll take that.