is the birther movement dead ? (San Francisco, Obama, state, support)

[InformedConsent]

Originally Posted by HistorianDude

I don't care about those requirements.

I fall under 1 (a)

And yet you had to apply for your Italian citizenship... In which Consulate did you file your Italian citizenship application?

[HistorianDude]

Originally Posted by InformedConsent

And yet you had to apply for your Italian citizenship... In which Consulate did you file your Italian citizenship application?

I had to apply for a passport. I was already a citizen.

1.The following shall be citizens by birth:

(a) children whose father or mother are citizens;

If President Obama wanted a UK passport, he would also have to apply.

[InformedConsent]

Originally Posted by HistorianDude

I had to apply for a passport. I was already a citizen.

That's not what you claimed in another one of the (since deleted) birther threads. You told us all about how you discovered you were eligible for Italian citizenship, applied for it, and then obtained an Italian passport.

[HistorianDude]

Originally Posted by InformedConsent

That's not what you claimed in another one of the (since deleted) birther threads. You told us all about how you discovered you were eligible for Italian citizenship, applied for it, and then obtained an Italian passport.

Forgive me if I do not trust your memory of what was my actual experience.

So... what has all of this back and forth established?

1. Jus sanguinis citizenship is automatic at birth for both the UK and Italy. It is also automatic at birth for Americans.

2. In all three cases, citizens born out of country must make an an affirmative act in order for that citizenship at birth to be recognized by the state.

3. In all three cases, until such an affirmative act is taken, the country in question can have no official awareness of the person in question. It cannot demand the obligations of citizenship from the citizen, and the citizen cannot access the benefits of citizenship.

[ovcatto]

Originally Posted by InformedConsent

That's not what you claimed in another one of the (since deleted) birther threads. You told us all about how you discovered you were eligible for Italian citizenship, applied for it, and then obtained an Italian passport.

Dude we're done here.

[InformedConsent]

If aliens born to Italian citizens were automatically Italian citizens at birth, why would the requirements under Article 4 and Article 9 be necessary?
UNHCR | Refworld | Act No. 91 of 5 February 1992, Citizenship

[HistorianDude]

And you might find this interesting. This is a definition from the 1952 Immigration and Nationality Act.

Section 1010 (a) (3) The term ''alien means any person not a citizen or national of the United States.

[HistorianDude]

Originally Posted by InformedConsent

If aliens born to Italian citizens were automatically Italian citizens at birth, why would the requirements under Article 4 and Article 9 be necessary?
UNHCR | Refworld | Act No. 91 of 5 February 1992, Citizenship

Because it is referring to parents or grandparents who were Italian citizens at their own birth, but no longer citizens when their children were born.

For example, in my case... my parents were both born in the US before their own parents naturalized. So their Italian citizenship was jus sanguinis, and hence mine is too.

If however my grandparents had naturalized before my parents were born, then my parents (and I) would instead be (to Italy) aliens, and therefore would have to go through those extra steps necessary to acquire the Italian citizenship with which we were not born.

Since I was born an Italian citizen, I did not have to do any of the things required by articles 4 and 9.

[InformedConsent]

Originally Posted by HistorianDude

So... what has all of this back and forth established?

1. Jus sanguinis citizenship is automatic at birth for both the UK and Italy. It is also automatic at birth for Americans.

True of the UK and the US. Incorrect for Italy - see Articles 4 and 9 of the Italian law. Aliens born of Italian citizen parents must meet certain requirements to acquire Italian citizenship.

2. In all three cases, citizens born out of country must make an an affirmative act in order for that citizenship at birth to be recognized by the state.

Incorrect in Obama's case. See the British Nationality Act of 1948 5.(1) and all of it's subsections. Some are required to register; Obama was not.

3. In all three cases, until such an affirmative act is taken, the country in question can have no official awareness of the person in question. It cannot demand the obligations of citizenship from the citizen, and the citizen cannot access the benefits of citizenship.

Incorect. The US State Department acknowledges that in some cases, "persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice." This would include Obama under the British Nationality Act of 1948.

[ovcatto]

is the birther movement dead ?

RIP