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Left side is spending per person. Right side is life expectancy. Thickness of line is number of doctors visits per year. Blue nations have UHC, red ones don't.
Location: Georgia, on the Florida line, right above Tallahassee
10,471 posts, read 15,838,455 times
Reputation: 6438
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy
What makes you think you are going to get better service at a lower price with Obamacare, or any government run program? It's going to cost you, and it's going to cost you more than you are probably paying now.
And if they are going to dictate what doctors get for various procedures, how many people are going to enter the medical profession? There schooling costs a fortune. An doctors already in the profession have said they will leave. So, now we have a shortage of medical professionals, which means poorer service (waiting lists, etc.). This is the way it is in other countries. What makes you think it will be different here?
But go! Go to some other country if this is what you want. You are quite welcome. BUT WE DON'T WANT THIS HERE. QUIT TRYING TO SELL US THIS HORSE MANURE!!!
I'm beginning to think you are on Obama's payroll. You are one of his plants, right? You are working with the administration to shove this crap down our throats. That's why you won't GO AWAY!
Yeah, our son went to the doctor in Japan and the visit plus medicine costs less than a dollar. Of course, other people have to help other people survive in this system - with their tax dollars. Unlike Social Security, where other people have to help other people survive in this system - with their tax dollars. Or Medicare. where other people have to help other people survive in this system - with their tax dollars. I think if you think other people need to go to another country where this kind of crap is not shoved down their throats, then you should follow your own advice.
I mean seriously folks, WHAT? I have had to fight my corporate insurance that I PAY for, doctors have had to refile my corporate insurance that I PAY for. Why are there so many Republicans, Tea Partiers and Conservatives against nationalized healthcare insurance, and yet we never hear them defend their private for-profit corporate health insurance - WHY IS THAT
A true free-market conservative knows that employer-based health insurance is a product of government interference and not the free market. The government encourages employer-based insurance through a tax break. Insurance should be for catastrophic events, not a catch-all that covers every visit to the doctor. That's why the current insurance system does not work as a price control at all. If people payed out-of-pocket for routine visits, a lot of the cost problems would go away.
Instituting a government health care system that requires insurance for everyone is like saying, "hey, we have this thing that is broken and too expensive... lets require it for everyone and let taxpayers pay for it." It's financial suicide.
Everyone debates health care as if the current system is the "free market" option. The truth is that everyone is debating between two options that are extremely flawed, and both are flawed because of government interference in the marketplace.
Location: Georgia, on the Florida line, right above Tallahassee
10,471 posts, read 15,838,455 times
Reputation: 6438
Quote:
Originally Posted by cw30000
US heath "insurance" is not insurance. It just a scheme that force people to contribute money in it. Not forcing everyone, just those who can pay tax. If you aren't paying tax, you are not require to contribute. If you are paying tax, then you must contribute, either directly or indirectly. What do I meant by that. That meant, if you are not paying any tax, that mean you get free or very cheap insurance.
Let say total medical and dental cost is $100 a year, so if there is 100 people in the system, every contribute $1, and it will be able to cover everyone. Now the people hire a manager (health insurance company) to manage this pool of money, it cost 5% of the pool total, so total cost is $105, everyone cost go up $0.05, or a total of $1.05. Now, let say, the population grow, we now have 130, and the total cost become $130 before administration fee. With the admin fee, the total is $136.50. This 30 new comer cannot afford to pay, but law requires everyone must cover. So the 100 people that are paying, the cost will go up to $1.365. And this is the reason why the cost of medical and dental care keep going up even when technology advance, which should bring the cost down.
The new system is even worst the the current one. If they really want to improve health care. All they have to do is take out the administrator and government get out of health care. Make people pay. I can already hear if we don't give health care to poor people, they will die. Too freaking bad. Everyone die, not just poor people. If you are poor, then figure out a way to move up.
Oh, you mean my blue collar husband who works at a job he really can't stand so his family can have good health insurance?
You bring up an excellent point about freedom and liberty for Americans (instead of privileges for the corporate insurance rackets, that we are really slaves to.)
With nationalized health insurance, people can apply to jobs they desire, instead of sticking it out at jobs they hate BECAUSE of corporate health insurance "benefits". And when a person is laid off, a person applies to more jobs of course, but in their job research they would no longer have to limit their search to ONLY companies that offer great health insurance benefits but maybe low pay. Laid off people could broaden their job search to great jobs with great pay, if there was nationalized health insurance.
It's not that it is so great. It's just that it's better than the alternative. Think about it. Would you rather have a car manufactured by a for-profit car company or one designed and manufactured by government stooges? Before you answer that remember the Zil.
I would rather cut out the middlemen and buy the car straight from the private manufacturer. lol, You are defending CAR SALESMEN now?
PS But seriously, human health is not a commodity. It is illegal in most Western Democracies to profit off of healthcare.
Health Insurance should be non-profit. As a for profit company any health insurance company has as its first legal requirement the responsibilty to make money. They don't contribute anything to the economy. They do not make things like cars, computers and so forth. They do not invent things. They are just a money shuffling operation amount with huge overhead.
Sure. Believe it or not there are people who work jobs they can't stand and still can't afford insurance for themselves, let alone a family.
So I'm "priviledged" because of that?
Please - give me a break.
The county that my husband works in has a 15% unemployment rate - and they can't keep employees to save their lives. These guys drag their feet, call off, come in late, stand around on their cell phones - I can't tell you how many guys don't make their 90.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aspiesmom
You bring up an excellent point about freedom and liberty for Americans (instead of privileges for the corporate insurance rackets, that we are really slaves to.)
With nationalized health insurance, people can apply to jobs they desire, instead of sticking it out at jobs they hate BECAUSE of corporate health insurance "benefits". And when a person is laid off, a person applies to more jobs of course, but in their job research they would no longer have to limit their search to ONLY companies that offer great health insurance benefits but maybe low pay. Laid off people could broaden their job search to great jobs with great pay, if there was nationalized health insurance.
We don't have what you would probably describe as great insurance - we have decent insurance. I don't expect it to pay for every little thing - there's such a thing as personal responsibility. It pays very little on dental and I've never even claimed vision because it's more trouble than it's worth - but I don't expect my car insurance to pay for my oil changes either.
If my husband needs specific testing for a chronic problem - I don't want to be on a waiting list ... I want it asap. Nationalized Health Insurance will end up exactly like the UK or Canada ... want to see a doctor or have a test ... be prepared to wait a long LONG time.
You bring up an excellent point about freedom and liberty for Americans (instead of privileges for the corporate insurance rackets, that we are really slaves to.)
With nationalized health insurance, people can apply to jobs they desire, instead of sticking it out at jobs they hate BECAUSE of corporate health insurance "benefits". And when a person is laid off, a person applies to more jobs of course, but in their job research they would no longer have to limit their search to ONLY companies that offer great health insurance benefits but maybe low pay. Laid off people could broaden their job search to great jobs with great pay, if there was nationalized health insurance.
sure they can
but no one (at least not the taxpayers) would be able to afford a national health care program
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I have had to fight my corporate insurance that I PAY for, doctors have had to refile my corporate insurance that I PAY for. Why are there so many Republicans, Tea Partiers and Conservatives against nationalized healthcare insurance, and yet we never hear them defend their private for-profit corporate health insurance - WHY IS THAT
