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Old 01-05-2011, 04:47 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,070,009 times
Reputation: 15038

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
What imports? The major export of the colonies was cotton, they weren't going to import it.
Raw materials out.

Finished goods in.

Get it?

According to the Westminster Review Volume LXXIV July-October 1860 it is estimated that the Britain exported the equivalent of 2,775,450,905 yards of finished clothing, fabrics and accessories to the United States.

Lace and patent net, items which I highly doubt were slated for the average slate, amounted to 344.156£.

Did I mention silk?

The Westminster review - Google Books
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Old 01-05-2011, 05:58 PM
 
Location: South East
4,209 posts, read 3,591,784 times
Reputation: 1465
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
All product is identical. One does not have higher quality than the next.
I beg to differ. True religion jeans are a much better denim quality than jeans found at walmart.
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Old 01-05-2011, 06:01 PM
 
2,125 posts, read 1,940,994 times
Reputation: 1010
I can't believe you guys are still arguing with someone who thinks that rich, slave-owning plantation owners wore the same quality material as their slaves. They ate the same food too, right?
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Old 01-05-2011, 06:05 PM
 
1,677 posts, read 1,669,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
What imports? The major export of the colonies was cotton, they weren't going to import it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post

Raw materials out.

Finished goods in.

Get it?
exactly
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:50 AM
 
73,048 posts, read 62,657,702 times
Reputation: 21942
To mention the Civil War without mentioning slavery is basically leaving out an important piece about the time period. The slavery issue was something that was being fought over before the Civil War started. Slavery wasn't a side issue. It was a condition in which a sizeable portion of the American population lived in. Slavery was one of the issues, if not the only one. I would argue that some ways of governing came out of the slavery era.
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Old 01-11-2011, 09:43 PM
 
32,028 posts, read 36,813,277 times
Reputation: 13311
It's nonsense to claim that the Civil
War wasn't about slavery. Just read the documents of the day, including the secession declarations. Had there not been slavery there would have been no war.

Wildly revisionist history is dangerous and an insult to the hundreds of thousands of Southerners and Northerners who fought and died.
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:23 AM
 
26,680 posts, read 28,685,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert kid View Post

FYI: MSNBC is probably even MORE Liberally biased than FOX is Conservativly biased.
FYI: The news story came from The New York Times, not MSNBC.
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:30 AM
 
2,031 posts, read 2,990,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert kid View Post
Slavery wasn't the only reason you know, stop oversimplifying it.
True. It was just the primary, overriding reason.

Quote:
The new [Confederate] constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution — African slavery as it exists amongst us — the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted.

(Jefferson's) ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. ... Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner–stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery — subordination to the superior race — is his natural and normal condition.
-----Alexander Stephens, Vice President of the Confederate States of American in the Cornerstone Speech, delivered March 21, 1861.

Quote:
And in a way, they were defending themselves from the North.
In the same 'way' that Germany was defending itself from the United States, 1941-1945.

Here's the declarations of secession of Georgia, Mississippi, South Carolina and Texas:
Declaration of Causes of Secession

Searching the text of those documents, the very words of the secessionists, we find the words 'slave/slavery/slaveholding' occurring 81 times. Those documents revolve around slavery. They're positively obsessed with it, and the 'right of states' (ie, 'states rights') to hold slaves. That's the 'states rights' that were being preserved - the right to enslave human beings. Of course, it's utterly laughable to call the power of a state of enslave people a 'right'. But I know how the apologia goes.

You can peruse the orders of secession of the other states if you want. They can be found online. You'll find the same thing -- clear declarations that slavery must be preserved.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,676,881 times
Reputation: 11084
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyageur View Post
True. It was just the primary, overriding reason.


-----Alexander Stephens, Vice President of the Confederate States of American in the Cornerstone Speech, delivered March 21, 1861.



In the same 'way' that Germany was defending itself from the United States, 1941-1945.

Here's the declarations of secession of Georgia, Mississippi, South Carolina and Texas:
Declaration of Causes of Secession

Searching the text of those documents, the very words of the secessionists, we find the words 'slave/slavery/slaveholding' occurring 81 times. Those documents revolve around slavery. They're positively obsessed with it, and the 'right of states' (ie, 'states rights') to hold slaves. That's the 'states rights' that were being preserved - the right to enslave human beings. Of course, it's utterly laughable to call the power of a state of enslave people a 'right'. But I know how the apologia goes.

You can peruse the orders of secession of the other states if you want. They can be found online. You'll find the same thing -- clear declarations that slavery must be preserved.
Germany invaded other countries. The Union invaded another country.

Just out of curiosity, what is wrong with slavery?
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:48 AM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,880 posts, read 15,207,835 times
Reputation: 5240
Quote:
Originally Posted by subsound View Post
NYT: South celebrates Civil War, without slaves - U.S. news - The New York Times - msnbc.com

The war has been re-branded as celebrations come up to drastically play down the role of slavery, and the fact it even happened. Instead many are making it all about "states rights" while the good ol' southern boys were defending their homes from the warring North.

Screw that one of the tantamount reasons to secession was to keep human beings as property I guess.

if people rmember, the civil war was more about states rights than about slavery.
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