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I must agree with you on this one since their benefits aren't considered salary. However, it is those benefits that are the real problem and are going to be shortened down.
Those of us who have been involved with and are married to teachers know that their jobs aren't just 8 - 4 or whatever those who aren't think the job is. My wife (hey she has handed in her resignation) has a work day at school that goes from 7:45 am to about 6:00 and then from about 8:00 to as late as 1:00 because she has so many papers to read and grade. However, she could do it like most of the rest and not grade all those papers, just throw them away, but she is too conscientious.
In these discussions I always remember about you and the fact that for years and years I worked till 8:00 pm most days because I coached athletics for so many years. Many of these people just don't know and never think about the fact that all states require teachers to get a certain number of college hours (all during those summers off) so they get carried away with that 9 month thing. Also, most never stop to think that teachers also work a week or two before school starts and then about that long after it is out in the spring.
Now I will say that those poor unionized teachers in Wisconsin have been lying about too many things up to now with the help of some other union leaders.
Might want to do a little research into just what unions do my friend.
As a state employee in neighboring Minnesota I am well aware of what the union does....My friend.......I am happy to say we have been recently sucessful in shutting a local IBEW shop..........And hireing non-union. non-pay equity contractor to build a 40 million dollar project.......
So many teachers have no passion for teaching but a huge passion for the union and benefits. To those teachers who were just showing up for a paycheck and benefits I say, "Poof, be gone."
$52,644 is the average BEFORE benefits. Those benefits add up to A LOT of money! You can easily add another $25,000 annually to that in benefits.
So brand new teachers in their first year out of college would probably get over $40K + the same benefits. A teacher teaching for 10-20 years is going to get something like $70 - $80K + the same benefits.
For working 9 Months of the year where they can even take another part time job in the Summer, teach Summer-School, or just sleep all day.
For the entire 28 years that I taught and the 39 that my wife has taught it has been mandatory that a teacher pick up 5 college hours in order to renew the certificate to teach. That means that you have to go to summer school at least one of those 5 years and you think that that is time off? I never took pud courses because i thought that getting more history or government was something that may help my kids so I took real courses.
You talk the 9 month thing and thereby hold out your ignorance of the life of a teacher. Don't feel bad because you sure aren't alone in thinking like that.
Of course, you don't mention the fact that those teachers all have college degrees so they were building up debts while going to college and most people in the public sector were working those 4 years. I really get a kick out of people thinking than when one has to go to college to earn a job they really don't do much but play around those 4 year.
This is like people being so much against MDs making all the money they make. People never stop to think that they have to go to college a minimum of 10 to 12 years depending on what they go into as a specialty and allow for the fact that they build up some monstrous debts from not being able to work during their school period. I wonder how many can accept the fact that a high school buddy works the whole 12 years and is free of necessary debt at that time but the doctor has to start paying off his debts.
I am completely against these unionized teachers and all the bargaining they want to do, but you are very wrong about the things you are hammering Casper about.
Are you suggesting they are NOT getting a good wage?
I have no clue if they are getting a good wage or not. I don't know the cost of living in that area, etc.
My POINT is: These are the people educating the future of this country and people are whining about how much money and benefits they make/get. Don't you think they should be paid well? VERY WELL?
And so the Doctors and the Teachers are presenting a great example for the children and the older kids ..... it's OK to lie ... OK to engage in fraud.
Personally, the entire country has gone to hell in a hand basket. Corruption, fraud, and high crimes seem to be standard operating procedure from the top down and across the board. Integrity is now the exception instead of the rule .... honesty falls victim to convenience .... and the populace are comprised of the greedy ... the self serving .... and the idiots.
A nation where half the population has an IQ below the human body temperature is a nation not far from total irrelevance and breakdown.
Who gives a flip what a professional baseball or football player makes. I'm not forced to purchase tickets to go see them play, am I? I don't have to pay their salaries or benefits through my income, sales, or personal property taxes either so I. do. not. care. what. they. make.
Not completely true. We have increased the amount of educational dollars by some 300% over the past quarter century (adjusted for inflation), so according to you our educational outcomes should also increase in a proportional level. But, a strange thing happened. Our educational outcomes have flatlined. Are we getting what we're paying for?
No, you aren't forced to pay for their tickets and if you read what I wrote, it was general statement. MANY people do buy those tickets and they are same people complaining a teacher makes to much money. You don't find it absurd, a person who hits a ball with a piece of wood, makes 7 million a year, and a school teacher, who is educating the future of this country makes 80K (or whatever the number is)?
You complain about these school teachers and ALL public employee's. Ok, great. Again, remember, all these public employee's pay taxes too. ALOT of taxes. Many have homes and pay property taxes too. In fact, if you believe alot of the BS out there, public employee's salaries are higher then the general public. If this is true, then those people are paying more taxes then the general public is.
You scream about public employee's salaries and benefits. However, those same people are paying major dollars in taxes and are providing a service to the people. What are welfare recepients doing to make ANYTHING better? How about all the unemployed persons, who are milking the system? You say nothing about that.
These public employee jobs have been around for years. If you wanted what they have, you should have gotten a job with them and all the benefits. You have men and women, who have been doing their jobs for 30+ years, expecting X,Y, and Z. Now, all of a sudden, you don't get what they have, and you are complaining, trying to get rid of it.
These men and women, negotiated in good faith and were given their signed contracts. Approved by the people of the states and federal governments. Now, you want to rip the rugs out from underneath them. The employees aren't to blame, YOU are (YOU being a general term to the general public). YOU allowed collective bargaining and wanted your people paid well. Well, they are. Look in the mirror and blame yourselves.
There will be. Called "Presidents Day." Another one of those holidays, you or I in the private sector won't be off, bu the teachers will.
Whine, whine, whine! Want a little cheese with you whine? My DH is getting Monday off, he works for a private telecom business. Many businesses get President's Day off. Maybe you could go and bargain with your employer, ask him/her to give you the day off. That's what the RWs on this forum say to do. Each individual should bargain for themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amerifree
My brother in law is a Wis grade school teacher.
Sister always says she can't believe how much moneys and benefits they get?
Grandma is also a retired Wis grade school teacher. 102 years old now and more money than God thanks to our state.
Such reliable sources.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatyousay
Average pay of a teacher in Wisconsin is about double that. $89K plus benefits puts them over $100K on average. I'd say that is more than reasonable pay for a part time job.
This has been posted before, go do a search. The average salary for a teacher in the Milwaukee Public Schools, the largest district in the state, is $59K, not $89K. It's possilbe that if you count every single benefit they get, and ASSume that a teacher uses all these benefits every year, that the bennies may add up to that much. But to do so would require a teacher to use all the possible tuition assistance, sick pay, disability pay, funeral pay, jury duty pay, Costco discount, what have you, every single year. It would also include social security tax paid by the employer, other pension paid by the employer, and other stuff that the employee does not actually get paid for. Benefits are usually considered to be about 25% of salary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadex
Man purporting to be a Doctor, Wi Lic #21403 is handing out faxe doctors notes w/o exam for teachers
Any doctor who does not have documentation of the illness for a patient he or she gave a medical excuse should be reported to the state medical board.
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