Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
For the entire 28 years that I taught and the 39 that my wife has taught it has been mandatory that a teacher pick up 5 college hours in order to renew the certificate to teach. That means that you have to go to summer school at least one of those 5 years and you think that that is time off? I never took pud courses because i thought that getting more history or government was something that may help my kids so I took real courses.
You talk the 9 month thing and thereby hold out your ignorance of the life of a teacher. Don't feel bad because you sure aren't alone in thinking like that.
Of course, you don't mention the fact that those teachers all have college degrees so they were building up debts while going to college and most people in the public sector were working those 4 years. I really get a kick out of people thinking than when one has to go to college to earn a job they really don't do much but play around those 4 year.
This is like people being so much against MDs making all the money they make. People never stop to think that they have to go to college a minimum of 10 to 12 years depending on what they go into as a specialty and allow for the fact that they build up some monstrous debts from not being able to work during their school period. I wonder how many can accept the fact that a high school buddy works the whole 12 years and is free of necessary debt at that time but the doctor has to start paying off his debts.
I am completely against these unionized teachers and all the bargaining they want to do, but you are very wrong about the things you are hammering Casper about.
Thanks Roy.
But I can't help but notice that you didn't dispute my main points about their salaries plus benefits.
I assume then I'm fairly on target there.
I certainly know all about accumulating debt by graduating with a degree from college. I've raised 3 kids who've all done that....two of which went many more years to become a Doctorate in Constitutional Law and the other a Veterinarian. I am a professional as well who has to complete CE to keep my license. I even did that AFTER 20 years in the military! Plus I am self-employed.
So you have actually a problem with just one sentence of mine.... about the 3 Months off.
I'm not sure if CE is mandatory in Wisconsin or not. If it is, it's possibly what....once every 5 years. So 4 years out of each 5 they do indeed have the capability to take part-time jobs or just relax. On the other hand, MANY of us have to work year-round, including holidays (I Do). I'm "on call" 24/7/365. I also have to pay my own benefits as well as my employees. And we too have to pay our college debts.
So the only way to improve your lot in life is to join a union or start a business? How about I save more money out of my own paycheck, instead of sending it to union members who pay less than I do for their own future?
For the record, I would never work for a union. The thought of working side by side with people that honestly believe that the key to staying in a job is to just "not quit" is sickening to me. I prefer working with people that work hard (not just put in the hours) and think for themselves (instead of defer to their union gods.)
here is an interesting statistic about teachers and the unions:
In almost every state, teachers are automatically signed up to have their dues money diverted to their unions’ political funds. But the facts show that when “paycheck protection” laws require unions to get permission from teachers before taking money for political purposes, teachers almost always say “no.”
When teachers were given the chance to opt out of paying for the political causes of education unions, the number of teachers participating in Utah dropped from 68 percent to 6.8 percent, and the number of represented teachers contributing in Washington dropped from 82 percent to 6 percent.
at some point, the taxpayers won't pay more to the teachers (due to being unwilling or unable to bear property tax increases)-and the unions will just be another entity sucking money out of the teachers pockets.
Interesting, what is the average pay of a professional baseball player? Basketball player? Football player? Those same tax payers have no problems going out and paying $350 bucks for a ticket, $9 bucks for a hot dog, and $9 bucks for a beer (probably many).
Oh but gee whiz, pay the people who are going to educate THEIR children a good wage? Screw that. Remember, you get what you pay for.
Here's the difference: if that highly paid players stops performing, I stop paying for the tickets.
Actually most states take the 52K number and spread it out over the 12 months so that the teachers get a salary during the summer, number does not look so good at that point. I would also remind everyone that teachers also work more than 8 hours a day when you take into consideration that they have to grade students work and get ready for the next days course of instruction. Yes, they have real good benefits, maybe a little too good but the 52K number is not all that much pay for a someone that has a college education.
Casper
Except they're still only working part of the time. They might be getting a yearly salary, but it's still for less than 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year.
Many salaried workers put in more than 8 hours a day. Teachers also get days off thrown in throughout the year for all sorts of meetings. And they have months off every year. Plus 2-4 weeks off at Christmas. Plus spring break. Plus every holiday.
here is an interesting statistic about teachers and the unions:
In almost every state, teachers are automatically signed up to have their dues money diverted to their unions’ political funds. But the facts show that when “paycheck protection” laws require unions to get permission from teachers before taking money for political purposes, teachers almost always say “no.”
When teachers were given the chance to opt out of paying for the political causes of education unions, the number of teachers participating in Utah dropped from 68 percent to 6.8 percent, and the number of represented teachers contributing in Washington dropped from 82 percent to 6 percent.
at some point, the taxpayers won't pay more to the teachers (due to being unwilling or unable to bear property tax increases)-and the unions will just be another entity sucking money out of the teachers pockets.
The unions don't want to lose..that's what this comes down to.
Well. I watched the video in the link about the Milwaukee teachers' salaries. The average teacher's salary is $56.5K. They did not say what the starting salary is. The average cost of a teacher to the district will be $100,005 in FY 2011. This is NOT the same, boys and girls, as a teacher getting $43,505 in benefits. Why not, you ask? Because it's not. It includes such costs as substitute teachers when a teacher is out, expenses for supplies for the teachers, other "allowances"that the teachers may have; most probably the school district's contribution to SS, Medicare, pension, worker's comp, unemployment ins, all costs that a teacher never sees in their paycheck, etc, etc, etc. A standard benefits package ~25% of salary. This includes vacation, health insurance, etc.
As for teachers getting so much time off, teachers work under a contract that pays them for days worked, e.g. $X for working Y days. All teachers say they take work home with them. Now I have sometimes wondered if it's as much as they say, but still.
Thank you for the info. However an article from someone on the far left is not what I am looking for.
In rebutttal:
"This problem is NOW. If we twiddle our thumbs and do nothing, our state will, plain and
simple, run out of money in the Medical Assistance program, the Public Defender’s office, and the Corrections Department. The state owes $200 million to the Injured Patients and Compensation Fund, and almost $60 million to Minnesota in reciprocity payments. Even if you don’t count that $200 million debt, and you ignore the $65 million positive balance the state is legally required to carry, we’re still more than $136 million short this year alone.
Does it get easier with the next budget? Exactly the opposite. Starting on July 1 of this year, Wisconsin faces more than a $3 billion (with a “b”) deficit between the state’s revenue and its spending obligations, and unemployment payments have run up a $1.5 billion debt to the federal government on top of that. "
An Open Letter to the Workers and Families of Wisconsin | Editorials | Pundit League (http://www.punditleague.us/editorials/an-open-letter-to-the-workers-and-families-of-wisconsin/ - broken link)
You don't think that a letter written by:
Scott Fitzgerald, the Majority Leader of the Wisconsin State Senate.
Thousands of Walker/TP supporters joined the fray.
Largest protest yet fails to sway Wis. lawmakers - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_wisconsin_budget_unions - broken link)
Quote:
Largest protest yet fails to sway Wis. lawmakers
Here's why. The PEOPLE are behind the GOP and Walker.
Quote:
None of it — not the ear-splitting chants, the pounding drums or the back-and-forth debate between 70,000 protesters — changed the minds of Wisconsin lawmakers dug into a stalemate over Republican efforts to scrap union rights for almost all public workers.
Ground zero - where the unions finally lose the grip they have on the fiscal health of the states.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
