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No, you aren't forced to pay for their tickets and if you read what I wrote, it was general statement. MANY people do buy those tickets and they are same people complaining a teacher makes to much money. You don't find it absurd, a person who hits a ball with a piece of wood, makes 7 million a year, and a school teacher, who is educating the future of this country makes 80K (or whatever the number is)?
It's an absurd comparison to make. If you read my previous post, I've stated that I do not care what anyone in the private sector makes. Public employees are accountable to *gasp* wait for it......... the public, as it should be. NFL players aren't, sorry. If you want to compare apples to apples, I'd be more than happy to listen. How do public school teachers' pay and benefits compare to private school teachers? That would make a lot more sense to compare than your asinine NFL player's salary.
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Originally Posted by Phil306
You complain about these school teachers and ALL public employee's. Ok, great. Again, remember, all these public employee's pay taxes too. ALOT of taxes. Many have homes and pay property taxes too. In fact, if you believe alot of the BS out there, public employee's salaries are higher then the general public. If this is true, then those people are paying more taxes then the general public is.
Ooh, except that you seem to conveniently forget that their health care coverage (was it $22K/year on average per teacher on a family plan?) is paid for PRE-TAX. So no, they aren't paying A LOT of taxes as you claim. Their pensions are also not taxable. They're only taxed on net income, and I would wager to bet that the amount they pay in taxes is less than someone in the private sector with an equivalent total compensation package (since private sector employees on average don't have pre-tax deduction in the same amounts as public sector employees).
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Originally Posted by Phil306
You scream about public employee's salaries and benefits. However, those same people are paying major dollars in taxes and are providing a service to the people.
So? I provide a service to people as well. Most working people do. Regarding taxes, see above.
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Originally Posted by Phil306
What are welfare recepients doing to make ANYTHING better? How about all the unemployed persons, who are milking the system? You say nothing about that.
This thread isn't about the welfare queens and others milking the system. If you've read many of my posts, I have complained about them as well, but please stay on subject.
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Originally Posted by Phil306
These public employee jobs have been around for years. If you wanted what they have, you should have gotten a job with them and all the benefits. You have men and women, who have been doing their jobs for 30+ years, expecting X,Y, and Z. Now, all of a sudden, you don't get what they have, and you are complaining, trying to get rid of it.
You don't get it. I am not complaining out of jealousy over their compensation or benefits. You're right, if I wanted what they have, I would have gone into that field. The point is, they are public sector employees and are accountable to the taxpayer. Many people feel that the benefits they receive are out of line with states' budgets and what is affordable, especially given the fact that many people in the private sector have seen their total compensation decreased.
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Originally Posted by Phil306
These men and women, negotiated in good faith and were given their signed contracts. Approved by the people of the states and federal governments. Now, you want to rip the rugs out from underneath them. The employees aren't to blame, YOU are (YOU being a general term to the general public). YOU allowed collective bargaining and wanted your people paid well. Well, they are. Look in the mirror and blame yourselves.
I disagree that they were negotiated in good faith when you consider it is the unions' money that got many of the people elected, who are then in charge of negotiating these lavish contracts. To me, that's a conflict of interest, but that's how our system is set up. Walker is attempting to change that with the provision to disallow the unions to forcibly extract dues though, so kudos to him. Regardless of how the contract came into being, desperate times call for desperate measures. States can no longer afford it and there is just no way of getting around that fact. States can't just print more money like the Fed does. Should public employees be exempt from cuts?
Of course, and by and large it is spent with common sense and efficiency especially at the local and state level. Which is what we are talking about in this thread. There is a huge difference between common sense & efficiency (what you claim to want) and then saying "I want a cart load of services but only want to pay $1". You can hold your breath and demand such all you want but that's pretty darn unreasonable as a position. By and large a teacher with a master's degree making ~$40k-$50k with 10 years experience is pretty darn reasonable.
If you are envious of their salary then may I suggest you get off your duff, get a master's degree, and qualify yourself for a better paying job but don't rant because an educated worker is making pretty close to the national average despite having far above the national average in education. That's just the politics of envy which is another wedge game Republicans just love to play.
i guess you think that only republicans object to teacher demands.
if the taxpayers are unwilling to fund further increases in their salaries or further benefits, who are the teachers to demand more? now they are annoying other workers and there is no envy involved.
on the flip side of what you said, if the teachers don't like it they can look for another job since they are so "highly qualified"......
Excuses. These people are getting pensions (no 401ks for these folks, then they would have to contribute something!) and healthcare for practically nothing out of pocket, sick days (which we KNOW they are using), etc. It doesn't really matter if they used all of the benefits to their fullest, what they get is too much. Bottom line. Besides, I very highly doubt that worker's comp is factored into benefits, as that varies GREATLY when a claim is made, same for disability, so what you're adding in is apples and oranges. And actually, SS is a benefit to the employee, as the employer pays half, same for Medicare.
And yes, I personally have stated the MPS average salary of $56k probably 5 times on these forums now, at least once in this thread alone. It's a well-known fact by now and you don't need to come on here acting like people can't read.
Maybe you should watch the video that accompanied the original link. I'd bet whoever made that claim is counting every Costco discount, cell phone discount, EVERYTHING. Pension, SS and Medicare do not kick in until after retirement. Plenty of people leave before they are even "vested" in their pensions; that's how the company (school distict in this case) makes a little more money.
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Originally Posted by steelstress
But not by the state, nor does the state contribute to their pensions.
Why is this so hard for most people?
How do you know the state doesn't kick in a little for the police pensions?
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Originally Posted by andrea3821
The protests are not about that, but we are stick of hearing that the teachers only care about kids and the greater good when we all know they are only out for themselves.
I have never met anyone who thinks that. Speak for yourself.
No, you called them jerkoffs. See below.
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Originally Posted by andrea3821
Peanuts? You call $100k in salary and benefits peanuts? Jeeze.
The "dangerous occupations" are not having adjustments made that I know of. Just the rest of the workers, which yes, includes these jerkoff teachers.
Please documet the benefits, don't just repeat crap you've heard.
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Originally Posted by andrea3821
As an expectant mother who plans to homeschool, I am offended by this. You clearly know nothing of homeschooling. It is not for everyone and to imply that a parent is bad b/c they choose not to homeschool is just plain mean. It's not a matter of having the time, either, it's being able to teach your child day in and day out (not just about life but about school subjects), with patience and creativity. And doing school stuff during vacation and all times of year with no time off is not what homeschooling is about, either.
I know that was OT but I couldn't let it go unaddressed.
It's off topic, something you have excoriated others for.
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Originally Posted by jeffington
I want to college in a University that was principally involved in developing educators - used to be called Missouri Teachers College.
The phrase you would hear there was.
Those that can, do, Those that can't, teach, those that can't teach, teach teachers.
That's original, not.
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Originally Posted by andrea3821
I hope you're kidding. MPS sucks, it's a well-known fact in this area that these schools fail the children miserably. But yet we are paying these teachers $100k/year for this? I'm not saying the parents have nothing to do with it, but you are downright wrong to say the kids would have gotten a good education had they stayed in school.
Do not say $100K a year again until you can document that these teachers actually get $100K with their benefits. I'm not talking about benefits they won't see in years, such as the SD's contribution to SS, Medicare or a pension.
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Originally Posted by andrea3821
Um, have you driven through a snowstorm before? It's hard enough for me to get the 20 minutes from work to home when that's going on, it doubles commute time. From Milwaukee to Madison it's about 2 hours normally.
It's possible there are going to be out of state people coming considering that Madison is not that far from several other states and the Tea Party Patriots are a national organization.
Well, I see the Tea Partiers made it. Hey, I thought the TP had no organization, so it can't be held accountable for anything. What liars!
The people of Wisconsin did elect the Fascist governor but money talks and the Koch brothers have a big voice....corporations backing their close personal friends....google the Koch brothers.....it may open your eyes as to what is really going on...and the repugs can kneel , kiss their ring and lick their boots....
I'm loving this.....Lib nutjobs showing their true colors, for all the nation to see. Elections are only legit if the outcome goes their way. Otherwise, it's hateful rhetoric. But then, we all knew that's how the libs think.
Basically the tchers likely have a collective bargainig agreemnt that they must conform to or the agreement is null and void at a certain point. The state also likely pays districts only for time when classes are held in their state funding per student. That will leave the districts holdig the bag of their agreements to enforce with less moeny.That is why you see makeup days for storms and other things to amke days required.The ant-stike clases can mean termination of all contracts also which we have seen with police and other essetal workers i the past walkouts.
To organize your fellow workers and fight for a better standard of living is hard work just like founding your own business is hard work. Most of the bashers here are too lazy to do that so rather then trying to build America up and make it a better place to live they're trying to tear down those who do. It's classic envy. Rather then just continuing to work at the Quickie Mart for $9 an hour and spending six hours a day on an internet forum whining about how well everyone else has it get off your backside and work for positive change. Unionize yourself, upgrade your job skills so you don't have to stay in a dead end job, write the great American novel, or start a business. Do something other then sitting around listening to brain dead idiots on the radio and whining about how other people do better in life then you.
Also bashing teachers is so lame. Most of them have Master's degrees and yet they don't make much so attacking them because you're too lazy or to mentally limited to actually do what they do is just sad and pathetic.
And business lobbying groups spent over $200 billion in the 2008 to 2010 election cycle so what's your point? That workers donate 1/40th as much money as businesses who lobby for ever larger government handouts or special loopholes? What a simple world you must live in.
So the only way to improve your lot in life is to join a union or start a business? How about I save more money out of my own paycheck, instead of sending it to union members who pay less than I do for their own future?
For the record, I would never work for a union. The thought of working side by side with people that honestly believe that the key to staying in a job is to just "not quit" is sickening to me. I prefer working with people that work hard (not just put in the hours) and think for themselves (instead of defer to their union gods.)
Republicans always want something for nothing. I can at least understand why the ultra wealthy, who send their kids to private school, don't want to pay taxes to support public schools and don't care about the rest of the kids in society but 90% of Republican voters are not ultra wealthy. They're just useful idiots who get roped in due to class envy games, games about "culture wars" ("Da gays is coming!"), and so get suckered into voting against their own self interests. Then when the quality of their life sinks even lower, when their kids are packed into schools 50 to a room with no modern books or equipment... Then why complain that it's all the teacher's fault because she's clearly greedy for doing a low paying job and not being given the resources needed to do the job.
Republicans claim government never works, I say government can be run well (as it is in many countries) but Republican corruption and games are what undermines good governance. People who hate government and whose only goal is to sell their office to the highest bidder are just bad at governing. It's as simple as that.
Do you Libs even read what you write? Something for nothing? How about full benefits and retirement without contributing a penny.
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as it should be. NFL players aren't, sorry. 
If you want to compare apples to apples, I'd be more than happy to listen. How do public school teachers' pay and benefits compare to private school teachers? That would make a lot more sense to compare than your asinine NFL player's salary.
And actually, SS is a benefit to the employee, as the employer pays half, same for Medicare. 
