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The basic problem is the investors that own 90% of the country are not paying enough tax on their non wage income. The rest of us are taxed to pay for thier fortune and that is simply wrong.
BTW some of the OP's suggestions make a lot of sense.
Yes, but then he starts off with an asinine idea that 50% of Americans don't contribute to the country.
Then the OP starts talking about the "fair tax" which is anything but fair, and taxes the lower income Americans at a much higher percentage rate than higher income Americans.
The only way to fairly and equally tax is to have one flat percentage tax. You can offset that number by "all income above 30,000", which means that each and every American doesn't pay taxes until they reach the 30K mark, then we all pay one percentage for everybody. Then the upper 10% would be paying through the nose on their personal accounts. They'd undoubtedly move their money into corporate accounts, which need to be reformed also.
I'm not saying that I can't agree with some of the OP's ideas, but when you start off by saying "fair tax" and "50% don't contribute", then it blows a hole in the bottom of the bucket.
Yes, but then he starts off with an asinine idea that 50% of Americans don't contribute to the country.
Then the OP starts talking about the "fair tax" which is anything but fair, and taxes the lower income Americans at a much higher percentage rate than higher income Americans.
The only way to fairly and equally tax is to have one flat percentage tax. You can offset that number by "all income above 30,000", which means that each and every American doesn't pay taxes until they reach the 30K mark, then we all pay one percentage for everybody. Then the upper 10% would be paying through the nose on their personal accounts. They'd undoubtedly move their money into corporate accounts, which need to be reformed also.
I'm not saying that I can't agree with some of the OP's ideas, but when you start off by saying "fair tax" and "50% don't contribute", then it blows a hole in the bottom of the bucket.
I have posted in this thread as others have the percent of people who pay no income taxes. Those numbers while not exactly 50 is close.
The fair tax does not more unfairly tax the poor since those at or under the poverty line are prebated the tax on food and clothing. The flat tax does nothing like that. More people with their own money deciding what do with their money is the fair tax.
I have posted in this thread as others have the percent of people who pay no income taxes. Those numbers while not exactly 50 is close.
The fair tax does not more unfairly tax the poor since those at or under the poverty line are prebated the tax on food and clothing. The flat tax does nothing like that. More people with their own money deciding what do with their money is the fair tax.
Oh but food and clothing isn't the only cost of living. Cars, fuel, cable, phone, etc.
The fair tax is a bad plan.
And I don't care what you said later, its not what you said first. You said that 50% of Americans don't contribute anything, thats wrong any way you look at it.
On the fair tax.
You've got someone making 50,000 dollars a year, and you've got someone making 500,000 dollars a year.
The person making 50K a year is already taxed at a higher percentage than most Americans are. They usually have to spend 90% of their income just to make ends meet, while trying to save 10% for a retirement at age 70. This means that even if you exclude housing and food costs, they would still be paying a rate of around 40 to 50% tax rate under a fair tax system.
Now, that other guy making 500,000 a year can spend twice the money that the guy making 50K does, live twice as well, and be only paying a tax rate of around 20 to 25%.
Thats not fair.
If you make everybody pay one flat percentage tax, lets say 35% on earnings over 30,000 dollars, you've saved the housing and food costs from taxes, plus a little extra, plus you tax the highest earners at a higher rate, forcing them to put their private fortunes back into corporations, which allows those corporations to create jobs with the extra influx of cash.
Oh but food and clothing isn't the only cost of living. Cars, fuel, cable, phone, etc.
The fair tax is a bad plan.
And I don't care what you said later, its not what you said first. You said that 50% of Americans don't contribute anything, thats wrong any way you look at it.
On the fair tax.
You've got someone making 50,000 dollars a year, and you've got someone making 500,000 dollars a year.
The person making 50K a year is already taxed at a higher percentage than most Americans are. They usually have to spend 90% of their income just to make ends meet, while trying to save 10% for a retirement at age 70. This means that even if you exclude housing and food costs, they would still be paying a rate of around 40 to 50% tax rate under a fair tax system.
Now, that other guy making 500,000 a year can spend twice the money that the guy making 50K does, live twice as well, and be only paying a tax rate of around 20 to 25%.
Thats not fair.
If you make everybody pay one flat percentage tax, lets say 35% on earnings over 30,000 dollars, you've saved the housing and food costs from taxes, plus a little extra, plus you tax the highest earners at a higher rate, forcing them to put their private fortunes back into corporations, which allows those corporations to create jobs with the extra influx of cash.
I said 50% of the people do not pay taxes. While that should have said income taxes so my wording was bad.
With the flat tax it is easier for the guy making 500,000 a year to hide his income on foreign banks with foreign companies. And you can bet people that make that income can hide it.
The fair tax you can not hide from it. You buy a 1000000 home you will not be able to hide from the taxes on it since it is taxed at the point of sale. The fair tax hits everyone equally at the point of sale. it also allows that guy making 50,000 a year to take home all of his money.
while the wording i used was not clear i meant income tax, the fact is close to 50% of the people do not pay income taxes right now. I feel you have more invested in the country if you pay income taxes instead of relying on 50% of the country to pay income taxes to run the country that you do not pay. The fair tax eliminates federal taxes on gas, who do you think that helps the rich or the poor.
I would take the flat tax as you presented it as an alternative
I said 50% of the people do not pay taxes. While that should have said income taxes so my wording was bad.
With the flat tax it is easier for the guy making 500,000 a year to hide his income on foreign banks with foreign companies. And you can bet people that make that income can hide it.
The fair tax you can not hide from it. You buy a 1000000 home you will not be able to hide from the taxes on it since it is taxed at the point of sale. The fair tax hits everyone equally at the point of sale. it also allows that guy making 50,000 a year to take home all of his money.
while the wording i used was not clear i meant income tax, the fact is close to 50% of the people do not pay income taxes right now. I feel you have more invested in the country if you pay income taxes instead of relying on 50% of the country to pay income taxes to run the country that you do not pay. The fair tax eliminates federal taxes on gas, who do you think that helps the rich or the poor.
I would take the flat tax as you presented it as an alternative
You said
"50% of the people do not pay taxes. They then have no investment in the country."
Is social security and medicare taxes not investments in the country? If someone is working in this country, they are paying those taxes, period.
But if the guy making 50,000 a year buys a 100,000 dollar house, they can't hide from that either.
And you said we'd take houses off the table. Are we going to limit the house size or cost? Now we're talking about wealth redistribution, and we are also talking about an EXTREMELY complicated tax code.
Complicated tax codes can be manipulated to the benefit of the few, and the detriment of the many. This is why the tax code we have now doesn't work.
Nope, 35% tax on your pay check, everyone pays it beyond 30K a year. When your paycheck stub says you crossed that mark, 35% of your income will be taken for taxes. For some of us that would mean a month or less, for most of us that would mean that we wouldn't be paying income tax. And it still fits under your idea of "housing and food", because 30K a year is about what that costs many Americans.
I'LL SUPPORT A "FAIR" INCOME TAX - if it applies to all income from all sources, covers corporate profits as individual income and has a deductable set at the 90th percentile. Given a high enough tax we would no longer have to borrow money for OPEC’S petroleum wars.
I do not support any sales taxes and property taxes on either real estate or stocks/bonds/etc. Income is the best measure of the benefits people receive from a society and economy and should pay a fair amount for that benefit and protection.
Most proposals for a “FAIR TAX” are anything but. They are all regressive and effectively give the people and, no that they are considered people, corporations a tremendous break in paying their actual share of the cost of their protection and profit.
I have posted in this thread as others have the percent of people who pay no income taxes. Those numbers while not exactly 50 is close.
The fair tax does not more unfairly tax the poor since those at or under the poverty line are prebated the tax on food and clothing. The flat tax does nothing like that. More people with their own money deciding what do with their money is the fair tax.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjtwet
I said 50% of the people do not pay taxes. While that should have said income taxes so my wording was bad.
With the flat tax it is easier for the guy making 500,000 a year to hide his income on foreign banks with foreign companies. And you can bet people that make that income can hide it.
The fair tax you can not hide from it. You buy a 1000000 home you will not be able to hide from the taxes on it since it is taxed at the point of sale. The fair tax hits everyone equally at the point of sale. it also allows that guy making 50,000 a year to take home all of his money.
while the wording i used was not clear i meant income tax, the fact is close to 50% of the people do not pay income taxes right now. I feel you have more invested in the country if you pay income taxes instead of relying on 50% of the country to pay income taxes to run the country that you do not pay. The fair tax eliminates federal taxes on gas, who do you think that helps the rich or the poor.
I would take the flat tax as you presented it as an alternative
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979
You said
"50% of the people do not pay taxes. They then have no investment in the country."
Is social security and medicare taxes not investments in the country? If someone is working in this country, they are paying those taxes, period.
But if the guy making 50,000 a year buys a 100,000 dollar house, they can't hide from that either.
And you said we'd take houses off the table. Are we going to limit the house size or cost? Now we're talking about wealth redistribution, and we are also talking about an EXTREMELY complicated tax code.
Complicated tax codes can be manipulated to the benefit of the few, and the detriment of the many. This is why the tax code we have now doesn't work.
Nope, 35% tax on your pay check, everyone pays it beyond 30K a year. When your paycheck stub says you crossed that mark, 35% of your income will be taken for taxes. For some of us that would mean a month or less, for most of us that would mean that we wouldn't be paying income tax. And it still fits under your idea of "housing and food", because 30K a year is about what that costs many Americans.
I understand what i said in the first post and have tried my best to correct it to mean income tax. As you see from the other quote i did not say housing was off the table i said food and clothing would be prebated.
A fair tax hits at the point of sale. A flat tax is an income tax/ Income can be moved off shore as they do so now to hide it. Cant hide from the flat tax.
with your flat tax plan do you leave the deduction for housing?
I understand what i said in the first post and have tried my best to correct it to mean income tax. As you see from the other quote i did not say housing was off the table i said food and clothing would be prebated.
A fair tax hits at the point of sale. A flat tax is an income tax/ Income can be moved off shore as they do so now to hide it. Cant hide from the flat tax.
with your flat tax plan do you leave the deduction for housing?
What, you can't buy something on your private jet from Mulan, then fly it home and get around paying taxes on it?
Items as large as cars can get around that system.
A foreign monetary exchange tax should be instituted, keep the money at home. And the vast majority of the top 10% don't keep most of their money in overseas banks, they put them in corporations and businesses. They aren't trying to avoid the personal income tax, they are trying to avoid the highest corporate tax rate in the world.
Fix the corporate tax loopholes, lower the tax, and enact a flat tax for income. Simplify the system, less loopholes and less complication means more money is being paid in.
With a flat tax, I would repeal all other federal taxes, and enact one flat percentage federal income tax on each and every Americans earnings, above 30K a year.
No more property tax, no more any other tax, one flat tax. If spending is to be increased, then the tax rate would have to be increased to meet that spending demand. This would keep the federal government on a shorter leash, because then every American would want to know what is in it for them before the tax is increased, because it hits everyone.
I know you've tried to correct yourself, But others have jumped on that bandwagon since the thread has started. I get really tired of hearing "50% of people don't pay taxes" when that is anything but true. It gives fodder to people who don't understand how our system works to berate and belittle the poorest of Americans. The reason the lowest earners aren't paying that income tax is because we'd rather let them keep that money then to offer it back to them with government assistance, because undoubtedly they would need more federal help just to keep a roof over their head and food on the table.
The right wing Zombie Lie......only 50% of people pay taxes........LOL
look at it, those 50% pay the taxes, and at end of year they file for taxes and get it all back because they make too little to actually pay taxes in the 1st place.
What, you can't buy something on your private jet from Mulan, then fly it home and get around paying taxes on it?
Items as large as cars can get around that system.
A foreign monetary exchange tax should be instituted, keep the money at home. And the vast majority of the top 10% don't keep most of their money in overseas banks, they put them in corporations and businesses. They aren't trying to avoid the personal income tax, they are trying to avoid the highest corporate tax rate in the world.
Fix the corporate tax loopholes, lower the tax, and enact a flat tax for income. Simplify the system, less loopholes and less complication means more money is being paid in.
With a flat tax, I would repeal all other federal taxes, and enact one flat percentage federal income tax on each and every Americans earnings, above 30K a year.
No more property tax, no more any other tax, one flat tax. If spending is to be increased, then the tax rate would have to be increased to meet that spending demand. This would keep the federal government on a shorter leash, because then every American would want to know what is in it for them before the tax is increased, because it hits everyone.
I know you've tried to correct yourself, But others have jumped on that bandwagon since the thread has started. I get really tired of hearing "50% of people don't pay taxes" when that is anything but true. It gives fodder to people who don't understand how our system works to berate and belittle the poorest of Americans. The reason the lowest earners aren't paying that income tax is because we'd rather let them keep that money then to offer it back to them with government assistance, because undoubtedly they would need more federal help just to keep a roof over their head and food on the table.
Since property taxes are local and state taxes, can your flat tax system eliminate those taxes?
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