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The right wing Zombie Lie......only 50% of people pay taxes........LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booya
Please provide evidence, a link to prove your statement. YOu are saying it is a lie. So where is your proof. It is pretty unethical to do this without something to back it up.
This is EVIDENCE BTW: Evidence that refutes your claim.
The consequence of turning the tax code into a tool for social policy is that we now have a record 52 million filers off the income tax rolls. This means 36 percent of all so-called taxpayers actually pay zero in income taxes after taking their credits and deductions. But these figures don't include some 15 million people who work but don't earn enough to file a tax return. When these people are added to the non-payers, estimates the Tax Policy Center, the percentage of households who don't pay income taxes rises to 47 percent. http://articles.cnn.com/2010-04-15/o...?_s=PM:OPINION
Furthermore when you add the illegals who don't pay and don't file the % is much higher than 50%. Evidence based debating. Now that is how you do it BTW.
Padcrasher and other liberals like to add in all forms of taxes to prove that those who do not pay income tax do pay taxes.
they are factually correct....to a point....
If you work, you do pay payroll taxes (SS and Medicare)
if you own a home in a state with property tax you do pay taxes.
if you buy anything in a state with state sales taxes (all do) you do pay taxes.
At the same time conservatives like you and I will say that these people do not pay taxes when what we mean is, they do not pay income tax.
Actually because of the structure of our income tax system, many Americans who do not pay income taxes also get refunds from the IRS that exceed the amount they may have paid into the system.
if we are going to be fair, we need to take this number and subtract that from the amount these people pay in payroll taxes. I don’t know what that number would be (I have never seen such stats) but it would show that besides nearly 50% of American workers not paying income tax, a good number of workers, are effectively paying no tax at all (their rebates exceed the amount they pay in payroll tax).
Now that I have confirmation that the opening statement does mean income tax, I return to my statement that this automatically means that the vast majority of housewives, students and elderly would be consigned to being second class citizens. This would be something I am totally against and I know it would also be for most Americans. I am all for any tax system that is fair to the majority and replaces the current failure of a system we currently have.
The rest of the suggestions are for the most part ok by me but with some provisions on some.
Casper
Yes, but then he starts off with an asinine idea that 50% of Americans don't contribute to the country.
Then the OP starts talking about the "fair tax" which is anything but fair, and taxes the lower income Americans at a much higher percentage rate than higher income Americans.
The only way to fairly and equally tax is to have one flat percentage tax. You can offset that number by "all income above 30,000", which means that each and every American doesn't pay taxes until they reach the 30K mark, then we all pay one percentage for everybody. Then the upper 10% would be paying through the nose on their personal accounts. They'd undoubtedly move their money into corporate accounts, which need to be reformed also.
I'm not saying that I can't agree with some of the OP's ideas, but when you start off by saying "fair tax" and "50% don't contribute", then it blows a hole in the bottom of the bucket.
Memphis, there is a Fair Tax proposal that would eliminate your (and my) main concern about a sales tax hitting the bottom income earners.
Basically it works by identifying what the bottom earner level would be (I have heard 40K for a family of 4) and then the government issues a prebate check to each household in an amount equal to the income level (40K) times the tax rate.
so if the national sales tax rate was 20%, the calculation would be 40K * 20% and each household (based on household of 4) would recieve a check in the amount of $8,000 at the beginning of the year to offset the sales tax they pay.
anyone making less than 40K would in effect be given a "pay raise" sort of.
this eliminates the unfairness of a national sales tax and takes the hit away from poor people.
Now that I have confirmation that the opening statement does mean income tax, I return to my statement that this automatically means that the vast majority of housewives, students and elderly would be consigned to being second class citizens. This would be something I am totally against and I know it would also be for most Americans. I am all for any tax system that is fair to the majority and replaces the current failure of a system we currently have.
The rest of the suggestions are for the most part ok by me but with some provisions on some.
Casper
Well I believe the "housewives" you speak of are in fact "wives" so it implies they have husbands who work. Assuming as most do that they are filing jointly they certainly qualify as tax paying citizens.
Many many students work in conjunction with going to school, I know I did.
Many elderly people work, some part time etc. And the ones that don't are of course collecting social security and/or a pension of some type.
I don't think we are speaking of housewives, students, and the elderly.
Now that I have confirmation that the opening statement does mean income tax, I return to my statement that this automatically means that the vast majority of housewives, students and elderly would be consigned to being second class citizens. This would be something I am totally against and I know it would also be for most Americans. I am all for any tax system that is fair to the majority and replaces the current failure of a system we currently have.
The rest of the suggestions are for the most part ok by me but with some provisions on some.
Casper
Im not sure how the fair tax turns housewives into second class citizens
I like most of your ideas. Less and less people pay taxes, especially since unemployment is high, and has been high since Obama promised that it wouldn't be......
Close the boarders, deport the illegals, and get rid of the UN. Stop Obama care!!
Faulty Premise. Everything that follows is invalid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjtwet
50% of the people do not pay taxes.
That statement is simply false.
Anyone who purchases anything in America pays sales tax. Everyone who purchases most things also pay a hidden excise tax. Renters pay the property taxes of the property owners. And no doubt a large part of that '50%' figure of yours is children. They can't be expected to pay taxes.
Anyone who purchases anything in America pays sales tax. Everyone who purchases most things also pay a hidden excise tax. Renters pay the property taxes of the property owners. And no doubt a large part of that '50%' figure of yours is children. They can't be expected to pay taxes.
we have covered that. the discussion is about income tax.
50% of the people do not pay taxes. They then have no investment in the country.
we have to rethink taxes and go to the fair tax. everyone is then invested in the country. everyone has more take home.We will have a bunch of tax lawyers needing work as well as IRS agents. I agree in the Fair Tax system but I do not think it will fly at least in my lifetime.
Close the borders. Aggressively use the present laws to go after those that employ illegals. Deport illegals. Then make a simple work visa program matching companies with those that want to work.
Close the borders, how? Build a great wall all around the country? After that, what? Have guards every 100 feet on the wall? There is not way can can fully close our borders as far as I am concerned. I do agree with you in enforcing laws that punish people that emply illegal aliens. I do agree witht he visa program like the Bracero Program in the 40s I believe.
Term Limits I do not agree. You are saying the people has no say how long they want their leaders to be in place. You are restricting the voice and choice of the people.
SS retirement age has to be moved to 70 Even though I do not agree with the SS system I know it won't go away. With this in mind I agree because it cannot exist without going bankrupt so we need to up the age. After all we are living longer.
Tort reform. Ability to buy health insurance across state lines. I agree. That is more open market that creates competition and competition help bring prices down for customers.
keep kids on insurance until 26. No, I do not agree. A kid (a misnomer because he/she is an adult at that age) at that age is an adult and we should not force anyone to insure them. They are adults so they need to be adults. Ask a 'kid' to dress or do something he does not want and he will tell you he is an adult so he must act like one and provide his own insurance. This is the result of cuddling our children too much so when they grow up they have less and less the skills to fend for themselves.
Civil unions. Agreed. They are adults.
Nuclear power plants must be built as we continue to drill for more of our own oil and develop wind Agreed. We should be able to use all the resources we have and be less dependent on other nations.
Stop all foreign aide we are broke why do we give our borrowed Chinese money to others No, we are part of this world and there is nothing wrong with helping our neighborgs. Also, as much as we may not like it often foreign aid is done to support, advance, or protect our national interests. Sometimes it seems like a waste of money and it may be to some degree but it is a necessary evil for our own interests. If you isolate yourself and not provide foreign aid to other nations they can gang up against you and that would be very harmful to our national interests.
We no longer fight wars to win. As long as we are not trying to win bring our troops home. We do fight to win wars. The problem is that not everybody think we are.
Balance budget amendment I have no problem with that. We need to force Congress to stay within a certain spending limit. Not that I like it because there can be some unforeseen results if that happens though.
Cut all spending , all programs to 2006 levels for 5 years. It needs to be done but how many politicians will put their political careers on the line when they need to cut let us say in education, the military for national security, public works, etc. It is very easy to say that but very very difficult to do. I do not know if you are married but if you are you are going to tell me you and your spouse simply cut on all areas of your budget to stay balanced? I am pretty sure you and your spouse have argued as to what to cut on the home budget and also you have compromised even though you may not liked it, the same with the national spending.
legalize and tax drugs Agreed.
Legalize and tax prostitution Agreed.
National concealed hand gun law Explain this one. However, I will say I believe in the right to own a gun.
Close the UN and get it off our soil.
No, despite this institutions imperfections it is still an avenue where nations of the world can talk about issues. take care.
[quote=Booya;17924827]Well I believe the "housewives" you speak of are in fact "wives" so it implies they have husbands who work. Assuming as most do that they are filing jointly they certainly qualify as tax paying citizens.Wrong. Their husband is the one paying the taxes, they are only allowed to add their name as a joint filer so that they can get the married higher deduction at tax filing time. They make no money so hence are not paying anything into the system. If there was no deduction for being married they would not need to file since they made no money.
Many many students work in conjunction with going to school, I know I did. And many do not and those that do usually do not usually make enough to matter or they get it all back, sometimes plus some extra.
Many elderly people work, some part time etc. And the ones that don't are of course collecting social security and/or a pension of some type.
I don't think we are speaking of housewives, students, and the elderly.Many elderly do not work or if they do they do not make enough to have to file or when they reach a certain age they no longer have to file. If we are going to say it is income tax only people that able to vote then yes it does include them. I know the intent was to eliminate those on welfare that do not work but one has to word it that way or it will include those I mentioned, like it or not, the devil is in the details, as it is with some of the other suggestions.[/quote]
Casper
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Faulty Premise. Everything that follows is invalid.
