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Please for gosh sakes get over this crap. I have many gay friends who are very good friends, and the subject usually does not come up about is them being GAY CHOICE OR NOT, who cares, i do not because i accept them for who they are and not what society see's them as.
You seem the one to be confused, because if you already know the answers, why does it matter to you what most people feel, don't you know the answer. And just what is your point, if you are happy and complete being you, does it matter if the reason your Gay is because of choice or you were born this way. Are you happy being you, because right now, i am not so convinced. My gay friends are very happy in the skin they are in, have to say to look at them no one would ever know, but i know and still do not care.
Life is short, take a lesson, does it matter to you really if being gay, were because of Choice, and if so would this affect how you feel about being gay versus being born gay. If you are truly comfortable about being Gay this really would not matter to you, be happy being you, and try not to live for other people, because when you do, then you truly are not living for yourself.
If i accept my gay friends for who they are inside and out, why would i care about any source, or if them being gay, hinches on either they were born this way, or by choice, to me does not matter, but think you see this much differently.
Not everyone feels as i do, and that is their choice not mine, not for me to judge!
Please for gosh sakes get over this crap. I have many gay friends who are very good friends, and the subject usually does not come up about is them being GAY CHOICE OR NOT, who cares, i do not because i accept them for who they are and not what society see's them as.
It's certainly laudable that you do not judge people for being gay. It's very admirable that you accept people for who they are and not what society sees them as. For that, I give you quick reputation!
The importance of whether being gay or lesbian is a choice or innate is that those who would discriminate against LGBT people often do so on the basis that since they choose to be gay, they should simply choose not to be gay and then they'll be fine. It's exactly that sort of thought process that leads to ridiculous arguments like "Gay people have the right to get married... to the person of the opposite gender of their choice!"
If homosexuality is thus not a choice, then those people are discriminating against people on the basis of innate characteristics. On that basis, there would be little difference between those who vote to strip LGBTs of their civil rights, and those who enacted Jim Crow laws a century ago.
Then the next question is whether homosexuality is some sort of mental disorder. People in this thread have explicitly said it is. Others (Booya) have said they say no such thing, but apparently think that the APA was wrong to remove homosexuality from the DSM's list of psychological disorders in the '70s.
Again, your acceptance of LGBTs whether they choose to be how they are or are born that way is laudable in itself. However, the question is an important one with important implications for the future of civil rights.
I find it odd that there are millions of first hand sources out there that can answer the question, yet people still think there is no way to find out of being gay is a choice or not, yet I've met very few straight people who say that they chose to be straight. Also, why are gay people's views on this subject not taken seriously since they would be the primary sources to ASK? Why do many straight people feel that they know more about this than actual gay PEOPLE? I'm gay and know NOTHING about what it's like to be straight and would never CLAIM TOO, but the opposite is not true.
Good point........so the same would apply to those who used to be "gay" right.
It's not a choice. With the way society is, why would gay people choose to be that way. Seriously?
It's just about the anti-gay crowd trying to find ways to belittle gays and try and make themselves feel far superior.
Whether people want to believe it or whether they dont, inequalities, such as slavery, the subjugation of women, gender identity and same sex marriage issues, all stem from an innate desire for one group to claim more notoriety, respect, or societal worth than another "inferior" class. There is no justification for these things that doesnt truly stem for the desire of one group to claim "moral superiority."
Oh, so science has spoken now! LOL. All those years until 1973 they were wrong-they declared it a "mental illness" with, as you state no facts to support this and now changed their minds.
Ya can't have it both ways my friend, it can't be factual and scientific when it supports your claim but fallable when it doesn't.
Empiricals actually don't change.
But we do agree on one thing; homosexuality is a variant; that is an event that departs from expectations, so it is an aberration from the norm. It is not the norm. And it can happen in nature but it does not mean it is normal.
You clearly don't know what science is or how it operates. And I don't "have it both ways." Science is a process. Ideas and even theories change as new evidence comes to light, but the scientific method and the peer review process insures that science seeks truth above all else. It is not arbitrary, it is not political. It shines light wherever darkness dwells in the minds of men and it still has much work to do as evidenced by people like you.
Before any serious study of homosexuality had taken place it was assumed to be a mental disorder, an idea that was fueled more by puritanical and religious attitudes than any kind of real science. However, after many peer reviewed studies in the late 60's and early 70's it became clear that nobody was able to definitively prove that homosexuality was a mental disorder, and in fact there was much evidence that showed that most homosexuals were as healthy and well adjusted as anyone else. And in the almost four decades since the ruling was made no scientific, peer reviewed study has proven any different.
And you are flat out wrong about the word "variant." It does not equate to deviancy or aberration as you put it. It simply means variation or variety. In other words homosexuality is just one of the many ways that human sexuality manifests itself. It may not be the way of the majority, but it is common enough to be considered a normal variation.
I have been as clear as I can be. If you still don't get it, the problem lies with you.
I find it odd that there are millions of first hand sources out there that can answer the question, yet people still think there is no way to find out of being gay is a choice or not, yet I've met very few straight people who say that they chose to be straight. Also, why are gay people's views on this subject not taken seriously since they would be the primary sources to ASK? Why do many straight people feel that they know more about this than actual gay PEOPLE? I'm gay and know NOTHING about what it's like to be straight and would never CLAIM TOO, but the opposite is not true.
I haven't read the entire thread so forgive me if I'm repeating something someone else said already.
Homosexuality is complicated simply because so many people are affected by it and each one is an individual. I am not an expert by any means, but this fact alone makes it difficult to come to some tidy conclusion about whether and when it is a choice vs. something one cannot avoid.
I do have gay friends, but have only spoken frankly with one of them, a male. He is a religious Jew, as I am. He has convinced me that he was born gay. It is not a life he wanted. He wanted a religious life with a traditional family. Now he is trying to accept himself as he is and has made friends with other religious Jews so that he can integrate these two, disparate parts of his life, celebrate holidays and the sabbath, etc. Thankfully our Orthodox community is very accepting of him even though most of the congregants adhere to biblical principles on homosexuality.
So, there are those gays who are not "making a choice," but are just being who they are. I certainly am not of the mind that all gays are mentally ill.
On the other hand, there are gays who do have mental issues, and one has to wonder if it's a chicken or egg situation. Did they develop mental issues over the stress of being gay in a straight society? Or did their sexual orientation develop from a mental illness that was already present?
And yet, on the other hand (if you have three hands), there are complete fakes. In this category are college students and high school kids or even very immature adults who think it's cool to be gay and so they pretend. I assume that eventually they tire of this game. They are definitely making a choice to engage in homosexual behavior.
What if there are multiple reasons explaining homosexuality? What if some have a genetic cause, others have an environmental cause, others are psychological, etc?
And yet, on the other hand (if you have three hands), there are complete fakes. In this category are college students and high school kids or even very immature adults who think it's cool to be gay and so they pretend. I assume that eventually they tire of this game. They are definitely making a choice to engage in homosexual behavior.
I have never in my life met a male who has pretended to be gay, nor have I met a straight male who thought it was cool to be a gay male. Never, and I've known many gay males.
I find it odd that there are millions of first hand sources out there that can answer the question, yet people still think there is no way to find out of being gay is a choice or not, yet I've met very few straight people who say that they chose to be straight. Also, why are gay people's views on this subject not taken seriously since they would be the primary sources to ASK? Why do many straight people feel that they know more about this than actual gay PEOPLE? I'm gay and know NOTHING about what it's like to be straight and would never CLAIM TOO, but the opposite is not true.
You would have to go back before they thought they were gay.
It all happens in youth. Something has programed the brain to think in that pattern.
Lets ask a 3 year old if they chose to be gay. Heck lets ask the same kid @ 5 years old then 10 and throughout their life.
You would have to go back before they thought they were gay.
It all happens in youth. Something has programed the brain to think in that pattern.
Lets ask a 3 year old if they chose to be gay. Heck lets ask the same kid @ 5 years old then 10 and throughout their life.
It was never 'programmed' at all. I've just always been that way.
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