Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Again and Again people give the logic that if Trains were profitable, private corporation will run it.
One of the reasons why passenger trains (and streetcars) became unprofitable is the government burden placed on them.
Starting in 1890s, electric traction rail service boomed across America. But after the imposition of the income tax (1916), suddenly, profits started dropping.
In addition, local governments were imposing ever higher taxes, as well as requiring rail companies to maintain any road their tracks crossed. And to add insult to injury, dictated the fares that the companies could charge... "for the good of the people".
Is it a surprise that marginally profitable companies started to go bust?
The biggest enemy of efficient transportation is the government.
A simple remedy: instead of tax subsidies, just cease taking all taxes from any company 100% involved in building, operating or maintaining rail mass transit.
Do you think that investors might flock to TAX EXEMPT investments in rail mass transit?
And in short order, build and operate profitable routes?
I think so.
It's common sense.
There's no profit until they move cargo and passengers.
At the least, the taxpayer won't be saddled with paying for mismanagement and failure.
Again and Again people give the logic that if Trains were profitable, private corporation will run it. Rail network is a service to our country, its people and will save billions of our dollars going to Arab countries in buying oil from them and sacrificing lives of our troops. Private company will not send man on moon or win second world war for USA...
Amen! Most people who quickly jumps with anti-rail and anti-HSR propaganda don't take their time to think about it. Their entire focus is on the idea that private corporations work in public interest so public interest should depend on private corporations for the country's direction.
"If x were profitable, private corporations will do it" is an excuse, but largely by the non-thinkers as their leg on the ground. I would use highway construction, the toll roads, as a good example against that. Virtually every toll highway (or, lately, lane) being built here in Dallas area is being financed 100% by tax payer dollars. After construction, the state government hands over the highway/lane to a private company to charge toll in the name of "maintenance" (which are generally not necessary for several years).
If we were stuck on "if x were profitable, private corporations will do it", why not expect private corporations to fund such road projects?
We have lots of very well off liberals. Why don't a few of them get together and start a high speed rail company, instead of just flapping their gums about it? Gates, Pickens and Sorros should be able to fund a nationwide HSR line and demonstrate it's financial feasability out of their chump change.
Just because a system is not instantly profitable does not mean it should not be built. High Speed Rail is, IMHO, a far better use of government money than a billion dollar fighter plane with nothing to fight. Or a trillion dollar war without a real enemy.
Given a similar price I would take the train to Albuquerque from Boston any day. As much as I like flying I do not like being treated as a criminal by the TSA bullies or self loading cargo by the airlines. Eliminating that agency would save money that could be used for HSR.
I don't know about the airlines but the roads, highways and bridges are directly funded by those that use them through gas taxes and other fees like registrations. The question becomes is could this support itself through the fees paid by passengers?
Yes. I'm planning a trip to France in late April, and a ride on the TGV from Paris to Marseilles (400 miles, in three hours), traveling first class, round trip for about $225. I didn't even bother to check the airlines, although I'm sure a cramped coach class seat would cost at least as much and overall time spent traveling would be about the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake
We have lots of very well off liberals. Why don't a few of them get together and start a high speed rail company, instead of just flapping their gums about it? Gates, Pickens and Sorros should be able to fund a nationwide HSR line and demonstrate it's financial feasability out of their chump change.
They aren't getting into highly profitable "build roads and bridges and airports" either. But they are smart people who know that they can invest where money is right now, and invest elsewhere where money would be eventually. I am sure that was the premise of $34 billion bet on railways that Warren Buffett played couple of years ago.
Private enterprise doesn't care about the people or the country. They care about self. The government must. It is a part of its charter, not just living in the present but also planning the future.
Last edited by EinsteinsGhost; 03-22-2011 at 09:30 AM..
I don't know about the airlines but the roads, highways and bridges are directly funded by those that use them through gas taxes and other fees like registrations. The question becomes is could this support itself through the fees paid by passengers?
but not even close to 100%, if you really paid, in the form of gas taxes and other registrations, for the privledge of driving on the roads and bridges you'd being paying way more than even 5.00/gal.
and then I could also bring up the fact that people with the souped-up pick up trucks and big SUV's don't pay their fair share for wear and tear on the roads and bridges due to their heavy vehicles and for needlessly consuming more gas than they really need by choosing to drive less fuel efficient vehicles and raising the gas prices more for the rest of us.
But I'd never expect an american't to think of somebody besides themselves.
Global travellers prefer hispeed rail...good for them.
They can ride back an forth at hispeed across their little parcels of the global community across the great ocean.
Hispeed rail's time has not yet arrived in the US.
The environmental impact statements would take forever and emminent domain would rile the masses on the routes. Cost overruns and minimal passengers would make it a loser. Stops every 10 miles would make it a total waste.
Global travellers prefer hispeed rail...good for them.
They can ride back an forth at hispeed across their little parcels of the global community across the great ocean.
Hispeed rail's time has not yet arrived in the US.
The environmental impact statements would take forever and emminent domain would rile the masses on the routes. Cost overruns and minimal passengers would make it a loser. Stops every 10 miles would make it a total waste.
Travel from where to where at hi-speed?
Clearly, you're completely out of touch with the reality.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
14% prefer a magic carpet
