Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No .... you just don't "get it". You put yourself into that narrow category of "Feminist" ... self identified as such, and that is what places you there, not me. And however legit and honorable your personal views may be, you may not declare others ignorant for viewing your association in the group is an endorsement of their less legit and less honorable views and opinions. You don't get to pick and choose ... and ignore the radical positions and attitudes some of the members of the group take as not applying to you, while you self identify as a member along side them. If you join a club who's policies are repugnant to others ... by being a member, you are endorsing such policies by default.
It would be the same thing if I declared myself as a member of the Hell's Angles ... one might legitimately assume I endorse drug trafficking and murder. Of course I could say that I'm one of the good peaceful Hell's Angles ... but you're not obligated to buy it, just because I say so, and especially when I refuse to repudiate drug trafficking and murder when asked.
Furthermore, my reference to "hypotheticals" should be clear if you've read previous posts. This isn't about YOU ... or what you personally choose to do. More power to you for following your dreams and becoming a pilot ... and my little witty remark about safe skies was just pulling your leg.
This is about supporting and self identifying as a member of a larger group who's clearly demonstrated ideological positions are self destructive, and does not further your best interests or the best interests of women as a whole. You may THINK it does, but you are being deceived into supporting something that is in reality, counter to the best interests of women.
Moreover, the fact is, you don't owe your opportunity to be a pilot, or your success at it to the Feminist movement ... Elizabeth Thible of France, floated over a mile above the ground in a hot-air balloon in 1784, and since then there have been scores of famous female pilots that predate the American Feminist movement .... including a woman who set the world altitude record in 1886.
Did Cleo-freaking-patra owe her success to Gloria Steinem ? I dun thin so Lucy.
Look ... organizations of all flavors are not really interested in their member's best interests ... they are interested in what's best for the organization ... and more often than not, it is your dis-empowerment that best serves the organization's goals. Feminist organizations are needed to protect you powerless women from the big bad white man .... the Black organizations are needed to protect the powerless blacks from the big bad white man ... the Latino organizations are needed to protect the powerless Latinos from the big bad white man ... the Gay organizations are needed to protect the gays from the big bad heterosexual white man.
Aside from the apparent omnipotence of the big bad white man ... do you see any other pattern here? The constant reinforcement of your powerlessness perhaps? Your need for the organizations?
I'll tell you this ... all of you have a much higher opinion of the big bad white man than you let on .... because frankly, it's amazing to me that us big bad white men manage to get anything else done, since we seem to have such a full plate in repressing and holding back everyone on the planet except us big bad white men.
No wonder I'm always exhausted ... I thought it was just old age.
You need to study up on your history a bit more....Cleopatra was forced to marry her brother Ptolemy, whom she killed to seize sole power to the throne.
WTF that has to do in your mind with Gloria Steinem, I'm sure I have no clue.
No .... you just don't "get it". You put yourself into that narrow category of "Feminist" ... self identified as such, and that is what places you there, not me. And however legit and honorable your personal views may be, you may not declare others ignorant for viewing your association in the group is an endorsement of their less legit and less honorable views and opinions. You don't get to pick and choose ... and ignore the radical positions and attitudes some of the members of the group take as not applying to you, while you self identify as a member along side them. If you join a club who's policies are repugnant to others ... by being a member, you are endorsing such policies by default.
It would be the same thing if I declared myself as a member of the Hell's Angles ... one might legitimately assume I endorse drug trafficking and murder. Of course I could say that I'm one of the good peaceful Hell's Angles ... but you're not obligated to buy it, just because I say so, and especially when I refuse to repudiate drug trafficking and murder when asked.
Furthermore, my reference to "hypotheticals" should be clear if you've read previous posts. This isn't about YOU ... or what you personally choose to do. More power to you for following your dreams and becoming a pilot ... and my little witty remark about safe skies was just pulling your leg.
This is about supporting and self identifying as a member of a larger group who's clearly demonstrated ideological positions are self destructive, and does not further your best interests or the best interests of women as a whole. You may THINK it does, but you are being deceived into supporting something that is in reality, counter to the best interests of women.
Moreover, the fact is, you don't owe your opportunity to be a pilot, or your success at it to the Feminist movement ... Elizabeth Thible of France, floated over a mile above the ground in a hot-air balloon in 1784, and since then there have been scores of famous female pilots that predate the American Feminist movement .... including a woman who set the world altitude record in 1886.
Did Cleo-freaking-patra owe her success to Gloria Steinem ? I dun thin so Lucy.
Look ... organizations of all flavors are not really interested in their member's best interests ... they are interested in what's best for the organization ... and more often than not, it is your dis-empowerment that best serves the organization's goals. Feminist organizations are needed to protect you powerless women from the big bad white man .... the Black organizations are needed to protect the powerless blacks from the big bad white man ... the Latino organizations are needed to protect the powerless Latinos from the big bad white man ... the Gay organizations are needed to protect the gays from the big bad heterosexual white man.
Aside from the apparent omnipotence of the big bad white man ... do you see any other pattern here? The constant reinforcement of your powerlessness perhaps? Your need for the organizations?
I'll tell you this ... all of you have a much higher opinion of the big bad white man than you let on .... because frankly, it's amazing to me that us big bad white men manage to get anything else done, since we seem to have such a full plate in repressing and holding back everyone on the planet except us big bad white men.
No wonder I'm always exhausted ... I thought it was just old age.
Saying you are a feminist is not identifying yourself as a member of an organization. It is saying that you agree with a philosophy, specifically the philosophy that says that women and men are equals, and that women should be able to self-direct their own lives in the same way that men self-direct their lives. I'm sorry, but saying one is a feminist is NOTHING like saying that one is a Hell's Angel. My saying that I am a feminist is like me saying that I am a humanitarian or an animal-lover. And in the same sense that it reveals nothing else about my viewpoints than that I believe women and men to be equals. It doesn't say anything about my views on abortion. It doesn't say anything about my views on politics. It doesn't say anything about my views on social programs. ALL it says is that I'm a proponent of equality.
The fact that YOU attach a plethora of other political positions really speaks to your mindset, not mine.
Saying you are a feminist is not identifying yourself as a member of an organization. It is saying that you agree with a philosophy, specifically the philosophy that says that women and men are equals, and that women should be able to self-direct their own lives in the same way that men self-direct their lives. I'm sorry, but saying one is a feminist is NOTHING like saying that one is a Hell's Angel. My saying that I am a feminist is like me saying that I am a humanitarian or an animal-lover. And in the same sense that it reveals nothing else about my viewpoints than that I believe women and men to be equals. It doesn't say anything about my views on abortion. It doesn't say anything about my views on politics. It doesn't say anything about my views on social programs. ALL it says is that I'm a proponent of equality.
The fact that YOU attach a plethora of other political positions really speaks to your mindset, not mine.
Good afternoon,
Quick question, why use a female-centric word if the true goal is equality between men and woman? Why not use some word that is gender neutral like "equalist"? I'm for all of those goals you stated and I much prefer a world where women can determine their own destiny, the term just seems divisive and the extremist branches who ARE divisive don't help either.
Last edited by Freedom123; 05-12-2011 at 04:26 PM..
But I don't think it's cool to look down on some choices. Sometimes people don't even realize they're doing it.
Like the person who said they love feminism because they'd be a stewardess instead of the pilot they are. Great. I'm glad you got to be a pilot, but you just looked down on flight attendants.
You could just say "I love feminism because I got the chance to be a pilot."
Personally, I own a business, but I have real respect for SAHMs. I've noticed a lot of people only pretend to respect them. I think about my grandmother who was a SAHM. If she had not been in that position in life, then I fear for what would have become of MY life. Her love and stay-at-home availability buffered me from my parents bad marriage in too many ways to count. I owe her. I also think she had many talents and lived a valuable life.
I haven't been following what the men have said here. No doubt, some of them have said some stupid things. I just saw the one comment and posted about that.
Having just repped you for the other post, I'm disappointed that you would accept with "no doubt" that some of the men have said stupid things....without having read their posts.
No .... you just don't "get it". You put yourself into that narrow category of "Feminist" ... self identified as such, and that is what places you there, not me. And however legit and honorable your personal views may be, you may not declare others ignorant for viewing your association in the group is an endorsement of their less legit and less honorable views and opinions. You don't get to pick and choose ... and ignore the radical positions and attitudes some of the members of the group take as not applying to you, while you self identify as a member along side them. If you join a club who's policies are repugnant to others ... by being a member, you are endorsing such policies by default.
It would be the same thing if I declared myself as a member of the Hell's Angles ... one might legitimately assume I endorse drug trafficking and murder. Of course I could say that I'm one of the good peaceful Hell's Angles ... but you're not obligated to buy it, just because I say so, and especially when I refuse to repudiate drug trafficking and murder when asked.
Furthermore, my reference to "hypotheticals" should be clear if you've read previous posts. This isn't about YOU ... or what you personally choose to do. More power to you for following your dreams and becoming a pilot ... and my little witty remark about safe skies was just pulling your leg.
This is about supporting and self identifying as a member of a larger group who's clearly demonstrated ideological positions are self destructive, and does not further your best interests or the best interests of women as a whole. You may THINK it does, but you are being deceived into supporting something that is in reality, counter to the best interests of women.
Moreover, the fact is, you don't owe your opportunity to be a pilot, or your success at it to the Feminist movement ... Elizabeth Thible of France, floated over a mile above the ground in a hot-air balloon in 1784, and since then there have been scores of famous female pilots that predate the American Feminist movement .... including a woman who set the world altitude record in 1886.
Did Cleo-freaking-patra owe her success to Gloria Steinem ? I dun thin so Lucy.
Look ... organizations of all flavors are not really interested in their member's best interests ... they are interested in what's best for the organization ... and more often than not, it is your dis-empowerment that best serves the organization's goals. Feminist organizations are needed to protect you powerless women from the big bad white man .... the Black organizations are needed to protect the powerless blacks from the big bad white man ... the Latino organizations are needed to protect the powerless Latinos from the big bad white man ... the Gay organizations are needed to protect the gays from the big bad heterosexual white man.
Aside from the apparent omnipotence of the big bad white man ... do you see any other pattern here? The constant reinforcement of your powerlessness perhaps? Your need for the organizations?
I'll tell you this ... all of you have a much higher opinion of the big bad white man than you let on .... because frankly, it's amazing to me that us big bad white men manage to get anything else done, since we seem to have such a full plate in repressing and holding back everyone on the planet except us big bad white men.
No wonder I'm always exhausted ... I thought it was just old age.
Well done
I don't know where you get the time and energy for all this, but I'm glad you do as your posts are always an interesting read.
Last edited by CrownVic95; 05-12-2011 at 04:31 PM..
Yes, I know it's not her path. But denigrating SAHMs with the dreaded "barefoot and pregnant" isn't very respectful. You must admit that "barefoot and pregnant" is not meant to be positive.
She could have just said her femininity isn't dependent on staying home and raising children. Why must we look down on the path not taken?
And not to beat this to death, but someone must have agreed because I got a rep for the post.
Your point is absolutely valid ... I've been in on several discussions regarding Feminism, and believe you me ... they can have a wide range of beliefs, but don't disagree with any of them else you are either a misogynist or a brainwashed female who has been subjugated by the man in their life.
Not every woman who claims to be a feminist is this way ... but a significant number .. in my experience ... are irrationally hostile toward any disagreement with their views, including from other women, but most particularly coming from men.
And the cavalier manner in which the misogynist label is placed on any man who doesn't cower to every demand, or bow to every position demonstrates their true hostility toward men in general ... regardless of the protestations otherwise.
Saying you are a feminist is not identifying yourself as a member of an organization. It is saying that you agree with a philosophy, specifically the philosophy that says that women and men are equals, and that women should be able to self-direct their own lives in the same way that men self-direct their lives. I'm sorry, but saying one is a feminist is NOTHING like saying that one is a Hell's Angel. My saying that I am a feminist is like me saying that I am a humanitarian or an animal-lover. And in the same sense that it reveals nothing else about my viewpoints than that I believe women and men to be equals. It doesn't say anything about my views on abortion. It doesn't say anything about my views on politics. It doesn't say anything about my views on social programs. ALL it says is that I'm a proponent of equality.
The fact that YOU attach a plethora of other political positions really speaks to your mindset, not mine.
Oh yes it is.
Your posts, though I often disagree with them in content, are always well written....articulate and courteous. Agree or disagree, I can't imagine anyone being offended by them. But have you taken a look around you lately? At the attitudes, demeanor, and communication style of the people you are associating yourself with by group name?
You're nothing like them and that is very much a compliment.
You need to study up on your history a bit more....Cleopatra was forced to marry her brother Ptolemy, whom she killed to seize sole power to the throne.
WTF that has to do in your mind with Gloria Steinem, I'm sure I have no clue.
The point, I thought, would be obvious ... especially to those of "equal" intelligence.
Nevertheless, the point is, history is replete with examples of women attaining positions of extreme power (not just equality) .... contrary to the rhetoric of eons of oppression for which the "Women's Liberation Movement" began in earnest, and is still so crucial to the ongoing effort in one day freeing you from those long worn shackles which, according to you, still binds you.
I anticipated that you might disagree with the point ... but I am somewhat surprised that I'd have to break it down to such elementary language for you to understand what the point was.
Perhaps you can enlighten us pertaining to the Cleopatra-Steinem part of his post.
See above.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
