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Old 10-22-2007, 11:27 PM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,193,095 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishmonger View Post
Of course that was the STATED purpose... I'm sure we gave Saddam anthrax and bubonic plague so that he could use his benevolent powers to cure diseases. American foreign policy is always 100% noble in its intentions.
Foreign policy this day in age makes for some strange bedfellows. Enjoy this bit from back in the latter part of 02, published in the beginning of 03


A crisis always has a history, and the current crisis with Iraq is no exception. Below are some relevant dates.
September,1980. Iraq invades Iran. The beginning of the Iraq-Iran war. (8)
February, 1982. Despite objections from congress, President Reagan removes Iraq from its list of known terrorist countries. (1)
December, 1982. Hughes Aircraft ships 60 Defender helicopters to Iraq. (9)
1982-1988. Defense Intelligence Agency provides detailed information for Iraq on Iranian deployments, tactical planning for battles, plans for air strikes and bomb damage assessments. (4)
November, 1983. A National Security Directive states that the U.S would do "whatever was necessary and legal" to prevent Iraq from losing its war with Iran. (1) (15)
November, 1983. Banca Nazionale del Lavoro of Italy and its Branch in Atlanta begin to funnel $5 billion in unreported loans to Iraq. Iraq, with the blessing and official approval of the US government, purchased computer controlled machine tools, computers, scientific instruments, special alloy steel and aluminum, chemicals, and other industrial goods for Iraq's missile, chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs. (14)
October, 1983. The Reagan Administration begins secretly allowing Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Egypt to transfer United States weapons, including Howitzers, Huey helicopters, and bombs to Iraq. These shipments violated the Arms Export Control Act. (16)
November 1983. George Schultz, the Secretary of State, is given intelligence reports showing that Iraqi troops are daily using chemical weapons against the Iranians. (1)
December 20, 1983 Donald Rumsfeld , then a civilian and now Defense Secretary, meets with Saddam Hussein to assure him of US friendship and materials support. (1) (15)
July, 1984. CIA begins giving Iraq intelligence necessary to calibrate its mustard gas attacks on Iranian troops. (19)
January 14, 1984. State Department memo acknowledges United States shipment of "dual-use" export hardware and technology. Dual use items are civilian items such as heavy trucks, armored ambulances and communications gear as well as industrial technology that can have a military application. (2)
March, 1986. The United States with Great Britain block all Security Council resolutions condemning Iraq's use of chemical weapons, and on March 21 the US becomes the only country refusing to sign a Security Council statement condemning Iraq's use of these weapons. (10)
May, 1986. The US Department of Commerce licenses 70 biological exports to Iraq between May of 1985 and 1989, including at least 21 batches of lethal strains of anthrax. (3)
May, 1986. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade botulin poison to Iraq. (7)
March, 1987. President Reagan bows to the findings of the Tower Commission admitting the sale of arms to Iran in exchange for hostages. Oliver North uses the profits from the sale to fund an illegal war in Nicaragua. (17)
Late 1987. The Iraqi Air Force begins using chemical agents against Kurdish resistance forces in northern Iraq. (1)
February, 1988. Saddam Hussein begins the "Anfal" campaign against the Kurds of northern Iraq. The Iraq regime used chemical weapons against the Kurds killing over 100,000 civilians and destroying over 1,200 Kurdish villages. (8)
April, 1988. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of chemicals used in manufacture of mustard gas. (7)
August, 1988. Four major battles were fought from April to August 1988, in which the Iraqis massively and effectively used chemical weapons to defeat the Iranians. Nerve gas and blister agents such as mustard gas are used. By this time the US Defense Intelligence Agency is heavily involved with Saddam Hussein in battle plan assistance, intelligence gathering and post battle debriefing. In the last major battle with of the war, 65,000 Iranians are killed, many with poison gas. Use of chemical weapons in war is in violation of the Geneva accords of 1925. (6) (13)
August, 1988. Iraq and Iran declare a cease fire. (8)
August, 1988. Five days after the cease fire Saddam Hussein sends his planes and helicopters to northern Iraq to begin massive chemical attacks against the Kurds. (8)
September, 1988. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade anthrax and botulinum to Iraq. (7)
September 1988. Richard Murphy, Assistant Secretary of State: "The US-Iraqi relationship is... important to our long-term political and economic objectives." (15)
December, 1988. Dow chemical sells $1.5 million in pesticides to Iraq despite knowledge that these would be used in chemical weapons. (1)
July 25, 1990. US Ambassador to Baghdad meets with Hussein to assure him that President Bush "wanted better and deeper relations". Many believe this visit was a trap set for Hussein. A month later Hussein invaded Kuwait thinking the US would not respond. (12)
August, 1990 Iraq invades Kuwait. The precursor to the Gulf War. (8)
July, 1991 The Financial Times of London reveals that a Florida chemical company had produced and shipped cyanide to Iraq during the 80's using a special CIA courier. Cyanide was used extensively against the Iranians. (11)
August, 1991. Christopher Droguol of Atlanta's branch of Banca Nazionale del Lavoro is arrested for his role in supplying loans to Iraq for the purchase of military supplies. He is charged with 347 counts of felony. Droguol is found guilty, but US officials plead innocent of any knowledge of his crime. (14)
June, 1992. Ted Kopple of ABC Nightline reports: "It is becoming increasingly clear that George Bush Sr., operating largely behind the scenes throughout the 1980's, initiated and supported much of the financing, intelligence, and military help that built Saddam's Iraq into [an aggressive power]." (5)
July, 1992. "The Bush administration deliberately, not inadvertently, helped to arm Iraq by allowing U.S. technology to be shipped to Iraqi military and to Iraqi defense factories... Throughout the course of the Bush administration, U.S. and foreign firms were granted export licenses to ship U.S. technology directly to Iraqi weapons facilities despite ample evidence showing that these factories were producing weapons." Representative Henry Gonzalez, Texas, testimony before the House. (18)
February, 1994. Senator Riegle from Michigan, chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, testifies before the senate revealing large US shipments of dual-use biological and chemical agents to Iraq that may have been used against US troops in the Gulf War and probably was the cause of the illness known as Gulf War Syndrome. (7)
August, 2002. "The use of gas [during the Iran-Iraq war] on the battle field by the Iraqis was not a matter of deep strategic concern... We were desperate to make sure that Iraq did not lose". Colonel Walter Lang, former senior US Defense Intelligence officer tells the New York Times. (4)
This chronology of the United States' sordid involvement in the arming of Iraq can be summarized in this way: The United States used methods both legal and illegal to help build Saddam's army into the most powerful army in the Mideast outside of Israel. The US supplied chemical and biological agents and technology to Iraq when it knew Iraq was using chemical weapons against the Iranians. The US supplied the materials and technology for these weapons of mass destruction to Iraq at a time when it was know that Saddam was using this technology to kill his Kurdish citizens. The United States supplied intelligence and battle planning information to Iraq when those battle plans included the use of cyanide, mustard gas and nerve agents. The United States blocked UN censure of Iraq's use of chemical weapons. The United States did not act alone in this effort. The Soviet Union was the largest weapons supplier, but England, France and Germany were also involved in the shipment of arms and technology.
So what do these events have to do with the current conflict? Just this: If we do go to war with Iraq, it is important to know why. War will not really be about terrorism. Twenty years ago the United States threw its support behind Saddam Hussein in a geopolitical bid for enhanced access to oil. The trajectory given him by our support lead directly to the Gulf War and to the current crises. War, after all, will be about a history of misdeeds and miscalculations. And war will not be about morality. War will be about cynicism, deceit and a thirst for oil that knows no boundaries.
John King
Long Prairie, MN
1. Washingtonpost.com. December 30, 2002
2. Jonathan Broder. Nuclear times, Winter 1990-91
3. Kurt Nimno. AlterNet. September 23, 2002
4. Newyorktimes.com. August 29, 2002
5. ABC Nightline. June9, 1992
6. Counter Punch, October 10, 2002
7. Riegle Report: Dual Use Exports. Senate Committee on Banking. May 25, 1994
8. Timeline: A walk Through Iraq's History. U.S. Department of State
9. Doing Business: The Arming of Iraq. Daniel Robichear
10. Glen Rangwala. Labor Left Briefing, 16 September, 2002
11. Financial Times of London. July 3, 1991
12. Elson E. Boles. Counter Punch. October 10, 2002
13. Iran-Iraq War, 1980-1988. Iranchamber.com
14. Columbia Journalism Review. March/April 1993. Iraqgate
15. Times Online. December 31, 2002. How U.S. Helped Iraq Build Deadly Arsenal
16. Bush's Secret Mission. The New Yorker Magazine. November 2, 1992
17. Grolier Multimedia Encyclopedia: Iran-Contra Affair
18. Congressional Record. July 27, 1992. Representative Henry B. Gonzalez
19. Bob Woodward. CIA Aiding Iraq in Gulf War. Washington Post. 15 December, 1986
20. gendercide.com gendercide.com . Case Study: The Anfal Campaign
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Old 10-23-2007, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Brusssels
1,949 posts, read 3,864,105 times
Reputation: 1921
Default Party here, sacrifice over there

Sad but true...

Party here, sacrifice over there - International Herald Tribune
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
24,511 posts, read 33,312,803 times
Reputation: 7623
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishmonger View Post
Of course that was the STATED purpose... I'm sure we gave Saddam anthrax and bubonic plague so that he could use his benevolent powers to cure diseases. American foreign policy is always 100% noble in its intentions.
They were given to Iraqi scientists and medical specialists, not Saddam.
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Old 10-23-2007, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Your mind
2,935 posts, read 4,999,825 times
Reputation: 604
Really?

"March, 1986. The United States with Great Britain block all Security Council resolutions condemning Iraq's use of chemical weapons, and on March 21 the US becomes the only country refusing to sign a Security Council statement condemning Iraq's use of these weapons. (10)
May, 1986. The US Department of Commerce licenses 70 biological exports to Iraq between May of 1985 and 1989, including at least 21 batches of lethal strains of anthrax. (3)
May, 1986. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade botulin poison to Iraq. (7)"


But back to the subject of whether "the Surge is working," here's another perspective.

The Real Iraq We Knew
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Old 10-23-2007, 04:58 PM
 
294 posts, read 437,503 times
Reputation: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishmonger View Post
Really?

"March, 1986. The United States with Great Britain block all Security Council resolutions condemning Iraq's use of chemical weapons, and on March 21 the US becomes the only country refusing to sign a Security Council statement condemning Iraq's use of these weapons. (10)
May, 1986. The US Department of Commerce licenses 70 biological exports to Iraq between May of 1985 and 1989, including at least 21 batches of lethal strains of anthrax. (3)
May, 1986. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade botulin poison to Iraq. (7)"

But back to the subject of whether "the Surge is working," here's another perspective.

The Real Iraq We Knew
those perspectives are from when i was there 2 years ago...i felt the same way ...well sort of...two years ago. but i saw alot of progress made when i was there...we left a completely different city when i was on my way out. my friends who are there and continue to email me on a regular basis are continually telling me that it is a different country then when we were there in the past
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Old 10-23-2007, 07:00 PM
PPG
 
509 posts, read 1,423,506 times
Reputation: 182
Back to the OT. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!!! Our troops will be coming home soon. Sweet!!! Thanks proudcapmarine!!!
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Old 10-23-2007, 07:21 PM
 
294 posts, read 437,503 times
Reputation: 39
Mission accomplished.....it was they took Iraq. is that so hard to comprehend? or did you take it for more then that?

Our troops will be coming home soon? never heard that myself.
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Old 10-24-2007, 06:18 AM
PPG
 
509 posts, read 1,423,506 times
Reputation: 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by smackie94 View Post
Mission accomplished.....it was they took Iraq. is that so hard to comprehend? or did you take it for more then that?

Our troops will be coming home soon? never heard that myself.
So according to that logic, we should celebrate every individual accomplishment. So why didn't we?

Iraq taken = mission accomplished
Saddam captured = mission accomplished
Iraqi's vote = mission accomplished

Should I go on?

Why celebrate the first and simplest mission and none others HUH, HUH, HUH?

Where's the consistency?

The troops are coming home soon because the surge is working. Ask proudcapmarine.
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Old 10-24-2007, 06:40 AM
 
Location: NY
2,011 posts, read 3,878,903 times
Reputation: 918
Here's just one link of many you can find in a Google search. The surge is working no matter what the American hating left would have you believe.
U.S. TOLL PLUNGES IN IRAQ
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Old 10-24-2007, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Arizona
5,407 posts, read 7,794,780 times
Reputation: 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by smackie94 View Post
Mission accomplished.....it was they took Iraq. is that so hard to comprehend? or did you take it for more then that?
.

Well gosh, I took it for what our Fearless Leader told us it was.

Admiral Kelly, Captain Card, officers and sailors of the USS Abraham Lincoln, my fellow Americans, major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.


Oops. Off by just a tad. Remember the troops being interviewed then, excited their job was done and they could turn the country over now to all the freedom loving Iraqis, to establish their own system of government and jurisprudence? Man were they snowed.
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