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Old 11-05-2011, 10:21 PM
 
19,226 posts, read 15,324,078 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Vattel has exactly nothing to do with US citizenship law. He never mentioned natural born citizenship once.
Yeah, I forgot, he published comic books.

 
Old 11-05-2011, 10:31 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,030 posts, read 44,840,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
None of that mentioned anywhere in the Constitution or in the Minor decision.
Sure there is, the class about which there are doubts.
 
Old 11-05-2011, 10:33 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,030 posts, read 44,840,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
And Wong Kim Ark settled those doubts.
WKA determined they were citizens only if they were subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S., not that they were natural born citizens.
 
Old 11-05-2011, 10:34 PM
 
19,226 posts, read 15,324,078 times
Reputation: 2337
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
WKA determined they were citizens only if they were subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S., not that they were natural born citizens.
Didn't anyone ever teach you how to stretch?

When a person is desperate, it stretches and grasps and sews disparate parts together.

WKA question to the Supreme Court: Is Wong a citizen of the United States?

Answer: Yes

Question: How so?

Answer: Jus soli.

Yeah, but his parents are, like, not citizens of the U.S. They're citizens of some dynasty thing in China.

How can he be a Natural Born Citizen?

This court did not SAY he was a Natural Born Citizen for presidential qualification, if that is where you are trying to take it.

I will warn you again, don't put words into the mouth of the Supreme Court, or add meaning that is not there!

Adjourned, and don't try to read anything else into it!

Got it?

If Wong had been born in China of U.S. naturalized citizens, he would also be a United States citizen, but not a Natural Born U.S. citizen.

Last edited by ergohead; 11-05-2011 at 10:55 PM..
 
Old 11-05-2011, 10:37 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,030 posts, read 44,840,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Too bad nobody remembered to put that in the Constitution.
They didn't need to. Everyone knew what it meant:
Quote:
"At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners."
Minor v. Happersett
 
Old 11-05-2011, 10:43 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,030 posts, read 44,840,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by July0006 View Post
"That provision in the constitution which requires that the president shall be a native-born citizen (unless he were a citizen of the United States when the constitution was adopted,) is a happy means of security against foreign influence, which, wherever it is capable of being exerted, is to be dreaded more than the plague."1803, "View of the Constitution of the United States"
Like a foreign citizen, right? Obama was a foreign citizen at birth, a born foreign citizen.
 
Old 11-06-2011, 01:52 AM
 
Location: Mississippi
3,047 posts, read 2,826,620 times
Reputation: 699
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Vattel has exactly nothing to do with US citizenship law. He never mentioned natural born citizenship once.

Part 1 of Vattel is forming a new nation this includes citizenship and a Constitution, Part 2 is the nation and its relationship with others, Part 3 is on war, and Part 4 is peace and embassies.

Try reading Vattel before claiming to be an authority on the subject.

Last edited by DraggingCanoe; 11-06-2011 at 01:04 AM..
 
Old 11-06-2011, 01:07 AM
 
Location: Mississippi
3,047 posts, read 2,826,620 times
Reputation: 699
Quote:
Originally Posted by ergohead View Post
Didn't anyone ever teach you how to stretch?

When a person is desperate, it stretches and grasps and sews disparate parts together.

WKA question to the Supreme Court: Is Wong a citizen of the United States?

Answer: Yes

Question: How so?

Answer: Jus soli.

Yeah, but his parents are, like, not citizens of the U.S. They're citizens of some dynasty thing in China.

How can he be a Natural Born Citizen?

This court did not SAY he was a Natural Born Citizen for presidential qualification, if that is where you are trying to take it.

I will warn you again, don't put words into the mouth of the Supreme Court, or add meaning that is not there!

Adjourned, and don't try to read anything else into it!

Got it?

If Wong had been born in China of U.S. naturalized citizens, he would also be a United States citizen, but not a Natural Born U.S. citizen.

WKA was affirmed a citizen. Minor a natural born citizen. There is a difference.
 
Old 11-06-2011, 01:35 AM
 
Location: Mississippi
3,047 posts, read 2,826,620 times
Reputation: 699
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Vattel has exactly nothing to do with US citizenship law. He never mentioned natural born citizenship once.

BS. Several US Supreme Court Justices directly quoted Vattel "natural born citizens are born to citizen parents".

You have been debunked numerous times on this point but you bounce from thread to thread sowing misinformation.
 
Old 11-06-2011, 03:07 AM
 
Location: Mississippi
3,047 posts, read 2,826,620 times
Reputation: 699
By this same writer (Vattel) it is also said:

"The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority; they equally participate in its advantages.

The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens.

As society cannot perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their parents, and succeed to all their rights."

Again: "I say, to be of the country, it is necessary to be born of a person who is a citizen; for if he be born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country.

The inhabitants, as distinguished from citizens, are foreigners who are permitted to settle and stay in the country." (Vattel, Book 1, cap. 19, p. 101.)

Justice Daniel, US Supreme Court
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