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You happen to believe it religious of which not everyone does. Most people view the religious aspect as a part of it but not the driving reasoning before it. Marriage itself is a civil act, that you happen to incorporate religious traditions into has no bearing on that fact.
Those who don't believe marriage isn't religious are either atheist or agnostic. Most people who are religious (no matter what that religion is), believe it is religious. You find people who haven't stepped foot in a church, synagogue, etc in years, if ever, looking to find a place that will perform their ceremony. Even for destination weddings, you find people looking for religious elders to perform their ceremony. Their vows contain language that talks about forming their union before God.
BTW, if it's "recorded", you should be able to find something, shouldn't you?
I pretty much figured i wouldn't have to prove to you that people got married before jesus popped into the universe. I mean i figured you did have a modicum of common sense there. I guess i was mistaken on that front.
Although the institution of marriage pre-dates reliable recorded history...
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In Ancient Greece, no specific civil ceremony was required for the creation of a marriage – only mutual agreement and the fact that the couple must regard each other as husband and wife accordingly.[citation needed] Men usually married when they were in their 20s[citation needed] and women in their teens. It has been suggested that these ages made sense for the Greeks because men were generally done with military service or financially established by their late 20s, and marrying a young girl ensured ample time for her to bear children, as life expectancies were significantly lower during this period. Married Greek women had few rights in ancient Greek society and were expected to take care of the house and children.[citation needed] Time was an important factor in Greek marriage. For example, there were superstitions that being married during a full moon was good luck and, according to Robert Flacelière, Greeks married in the winter.[citation needed] Inheritance was more important than feelings: a woman whose father dies without male heirs could be forced to marry her nearest male relative—even if she had to divorce her husband first.[18]
There were several types of marriages in ancient Roman society. The traditional ("conventional") form called conventio in manum required a ceremony with witnesses and was also dissolved with a ceremony.[19] In this type of marriage, a woman lost her family rights of inheritance of her old family and gained them with her new one. She now was subject to the authority of her husband.[citation needed] There was the free marriage known as sine manu. In this arrangement, the wife remained a member of her original family; she stayed under the authority of her father, kept her family rights of inheritance with her old family and did not gain any with the new family.[20] The minimum age of marriage for girls was 12
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The mythological origin of Chinese marriage is a story about Nüwa and Fu Xi who invented proper marriage procedures after becoming married. In ancient Chinese society, people of the same surname are supposed to consult with their family trees prior marriage to reduce the potential risk of unintentional incest. Marriaging to one's maternal relatives was generally not thought of as incest, families sometimes intermarried from one generation to another. Over time, Chinese people became more geographically mobile. Individuals remained members of their biological families. When a couple died, the husband and the wife were buried separately in the respective clans’ graveyard. In a maternal marriage, a male would become a son-in-law who lived in the wife's home.
Seriously,marriage predates Christanity.
This is a known fact.
Marriage has never been a solely religious thing, it just evolved to be thought of as religious, and it's been evolved to a more societal thing rather than religious thing.
Those who don't believe marriage isn't religious are either atheist or agnostic. Most people who are religious (no matter what that religion is), believe it is religious. You find people who haven't stepped foot in a church, synagogue, etc in years, if ever, looking to find a place that will perform their ceremony. Even for destination weddings, you find people looking for religious elders to perform their ceremony. Their vows contain language that talks about forming their union before God.
Like it or not, marriage IS a religious ceremony.
Most people however are not overly religious and simply identify with certain groups. None of my friends *all christians* considered the church aspect as any more then a small part of the marriage ceremony. And those were the ones who had it in a church of which 3 did not.
So in other words, you have no credible and reasonable counter argument other than: "If you can do it, we can do it"? Gotcha.
Who is this "we" business?
Though, it is a reasonable argument to say "If heterosexuals can get married, then homosexuals should be able to as well."
Because otherwise, you'd have institutionalized discrimination that violates the 14th amendment.
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Originally Posted by ChocLot
While religion should have no bearing on the law, it does
But it shouldn't.
End of story.
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Originally Posted by ChocLot
...hence the whole gay marriage issue.
Ah, the issue where a bunch of prissy religious nutcases are crying about how "G4Y M4RR14G3 W1LL D3STROY TH3 S4NCT1TY OF M4RR14G3".
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Originally Posted by ChocLot
And like it or not, marriage is a religious ceremony.
Your marriage may have included a religious ceremony, but in order for the state to recognize it, permission had to be granted by the state you live in. Hence, it was a civil ceremony as well.
My marriage was purely civil.
And in regards to the government, the civil ceremony is the one that actually matters.
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Originally Posted by ChocLot
Those who don't believe marriage isn't religious are either atheist or agnostic.
I'm a Jenova's Witness and believe that marriage can be religious or areligious.
When it comes to the Government Seal of Approval for a marriage - that's areligious.
Marriage is a descriptive word that God has used and made known to describe a man and woman who joins as one . It is not a term to use as two women or two men.
I ask why do the gays want to use this term of the Bible=Marriage, and yet do not follow what God has to say in the Bible about marriage being only between one man and one woman? The gays want to tread down the descriptive word of God to blaspheme and disrespect God.
Why does religion keep coming into this legal debate? I'm an atheist. I have no religious conception of marriage at all. All I want is equal access to, and to be treated equally under, the civil, secular laws of the US and its many states. That is a constitutional right guaranteed under the 14th Amendment.
Civil marriage had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with religion. Civil marriage is a law. It has no connection to any religious definition or understanding of the word marriage. Civil marriage is created by, and solely defined by, civil marriage law.
This is one of my main problems. If you are an atheist, why do you want to participate in something that is, overwhelmingly, seen as a religious ceremony? To argue that marriage is not religious is preposterous. The vows themselves are steeped in religion.
If I were not religious, why would I want to partake in something that is so religious? Going back to the caveman days to say that marriage was not originally a religious ceremony doesn't cut it.
Again, this is a debate about civil marriage - not religious marriage.
When my two atheist parents went down to the county clerks office roughly 40 years ago to obtain a civil marriage, there were no religious ceremonies or vows steeped in religion. In fact, religion played absolutely no role in their (or anybody's) civil marriage whatsoever.
As an atheist, I have no interest in religious marriages. My interest is in civil marriage.
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