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Answer me a very direct question if you will. 40 some states deny gay couples access to civil marriage law. Should gay couples have equal access to these laws?
I could believe in a biblical based explanation for being opposed to interracial marriage. Still makes me a racist. Or if not explicitly racist, borderline stupid.
No, it wouldn't make you a racist. Since when does disagreeing with something equal with HATING it? Disagreeing is exactly what it is...disagreeing.
No, it wouldn't make you a racist. Since when does disagreeing with something equal with HATING it? Disagreeing is exactly what it is...disagreeing.
It would make me either a) a racist, or b) ignorant, because I'm obviously not viewing black people as "equal to" white people. If I don't think your kids are good enough to marry my kids based solely on skin color, or have some LAME biblical based reasons against "mixin of the races" (again, also used to justify segregation), I'm not exactly qualified to call myself post-racial or non-racist.
"Hey guy, nothing personal, but you're black. I'd appreciate if you NOT talk to my daughter, or use the same fountain as my family. I'm not racist, nor do I hate black people, but my Bible tells me that it's wrong for us to mix that way. Thanks!"
What would YOU do if you heard a politician make that statement? Say, "Well, that's his opinion! He's still a good guy!"
Oh wow. I apologize then. From our discussion in the Prop-8 thread, I thought you disagreed with the court's decision to require the state to apply the law equally to gay couples. I was under the impression you were against gay marriage:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocLot
-I'm a lib
-I'm Black
-I'm a woman
-I'm a Christian
-and I don't believe in same-sex marriage
Your question is not framed clearly enough. My objection is not just about the marriages taking place in churches. I don't agree with gay marriages at all.
I was addressing the inaccuracy of using the IR/Civil Rights tactic to bolster the gay marriage argument.
re: the sacredness of marriage. It means different things for different people. I personally don't agree with gay marriage, but I won't be marching in the streets and/or wailing in horror if it is ruled legal.
It would make me either a) a racist, or b) ignorant, because I'm obviously not viewing black people as "equal to" white people. If I don't think your kids are good enough to marry my kids based solely on skin color, or have some LAME biblical based reasons against "mixin of the races" (again, also used to justify segregation), I'm not exactly qualified to call myself post-racial or non-racist.
"Hey guy, nothing personal, but you're black. I'd appreciate if you NOT talk to my daughter, or use the same fountain as my family. I'm not racist, nor do I hate black people, but my Bible tells me that it's wrong for us to mix that way. Thanks!"
What would YOU do if you heard a politician make that statement? Say, "Well, that's his opinion! He's still a good guy!"
You've warped your position. You went from talking about IR marriages to talking about not drinking at the same fountains. Those acts ARE racist because they speak of being SUPERIOR over another race.
Not agreeing with IR marriage can mean that you don't agree with races mixing. Now your reasons around feeling this way can be varied, but if it is not from a place of feeling one race is "better" than another, then it is not racist. While I'm not against IR marriages, I'm also okay with folks believing that races should "stick to their own". Makes me no difference.
Oh wow. I apologize then. From our discussion in the Prop-8 thread, I thought you disagreed with the court's decision to require the state to apply the law equally to gay couples. I was under the impression you were against gay marriage:
Where in any of these posts do I say I'm not for equal rights? And that was what you asked me right? You didn't ask me how I felt about homosexuality/gay marriage.
In fact, I'd bet if you looked hard enough in those very threads, you'd see where I'm all for equal rights. But showing those posts wouldn't suit your agenda, would it?
You've warped your position. You went from talking about IR marriages to talking about not drinking at the same fountains. Those acts ARE racist because they speak of being SUPERIOR over another race.
Not at all.
The Bible says the races shouldn't mix. I don't think you're less than me. But you should have separate institutions, separate schools and separate accommodations. Separate. But EQUAL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChoLot
Not agreeing with IR marriage can mean that you don't agree with races mixing. Now your reasons around feeling this way can be varied, but if it is not from a place of feeling one race is "better" than another, then it is not racist. While I'm not against IR marriages, I'm also okay with folks believing that races should "stick to their own". Makes me no difference.
By saying that gay people shouldn't have the same rights as you to enter into a an institution that you are allowed to enter into.... you are essentially asserting a position of privilege and superiority over gay people. "Sorry, straights only" IS a discriminatory position to take. No matter how you slice it.
I'm sorry if that causes you some severe cognitive dissonance but it's truth.
Where in any of these posts do I say I'm not for equal rights? And that was what you asked me right? You didn't ask me how I felt about homosexuality/gay marriage.
In fact, I'd bet if you looked hard enough in those very threads, you'd see where I'm all for equal rights. But showing those posts wouldn't suit your agenda, would it?
Well when somebody says (repeatedly and vehemently) that she doesn't agree with something it usually means she's against it.
You've have got to be the first person I've heard say (I'm paraphrasing) "I don't agree with gay marriage, but I support it". Given your many, many posts talking about your disagreement with gay marriage, I never pegged you as somebody who, if your state had a referendum to repeal its gay marriage ban (in other words to legalize gay marriage), would cast a "YES" vote.
I still say government should have no say so in marriage. Only thing that should be checked before people get married is the ages of the people getting married so as to make sure child brides are not taken. With government out of it the whole gay marriage debate ends as does plural marriages.
The Bible says the races shouldn't mix. I don't think you're less than me. But you should have separate institutions, separate schools and separate accommodations. Separate. But EQUAL.
By saying that gay people shouldn't have the same rights as you to enter into a an institution that you are allowed to enter into.... you are essentially asserting a position of privilege and superiority over gay people. "Sorry, straights only" IS a discriminatory position to take. No matter how you slice it.
I'm sorry if that causes you some severe cognitive dissonance but it's truth.
This is where we differ. I don't agree with homosexuality and/or gay marriage, but I don't think that heteros are better than homos. Those two don't go hand in hand, no matter how much some would like to make it so.
I don't hate anyone because of who they are, what they look like, who they choose to love. Doesn't mean I have to agree with it. I don't agree with who my sister married; doesn't mean I hate my BIL!
Don't really want to go into the separate but equal thing because it has no bearing on this issue.
And I'm all for gays having equal rights. I don't agree with them getting married, however if the government isn't willing to grant them full rights under civil union laws, then I guess that will have to be the way they get them. I wouldn't want my religious choices/beliefs to infringe on anyone else's freedom. Doesn't mean I can't wish there was an alternative solution and it doesn't mean I have to agree with it. Still not getting why everyone has to agree. Will that be the new argument? Well, we have full rights, but now you have to AGREE with homosexuality!
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