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Old 04-11-2012, 10:35 AM
 
78,447 posts, read 60,652,129 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frugality View Post
Teens conducting home invasions are familiar to you?? Where do you live???
When I lived in Chicago, some of the worst ****e was being done by young kids who were too young to be tried as adults.

The 2 punks that shot Blackhawks singer\announcer Wayne Messmer in the throat about 20 years ago were <16.

15-year old arrested in gang shooting probe | kgw.com Portland
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:56 AM
 
Location: NoVA
1,391 posts, read 2,647,531 times
Reputation: 1972
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
Why are you bringing up self defense? Did I miss the part where these 3 middle school kids were assaulting the two adult men?
I brung up self defense because that is always, always ALWAYS an issue, either potential or after the fact, and is thus absolutely relevant to burglaries, regardless of what details a news article conveniently lays out for you as the reader. If the article makes no mention of an attack then by your flawed logic you shouldn't assume that self defense wasn't needed which I'll safely presume is your guess, due to your childish insult of the man who shot someone breaking into his home. Jesus tapdancing christ man, why should anyone have to spell this out for you?

When someone poses a perceived threat to your well-being by breaking into your home while you're there, are the occupants supposed to wait and see if they're attacked and then try to defend themselves afterwards? If the kids had no intention of infliciting bodily harm then that's just peachy, but in the heat of the moment when your door and/or windows are suddenly busted open, there's no way to ascertain whether you'll be physically attacked or not. Forget about knowing what will happen, the burglar doesn't even know what will happen. I've never shot anyone let alone a teenage burglar (which apparently makes me a "real man" in your book! How sweet), but given the right circumstances, I'd rather be safe than sorry.
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:58 AM
 
2,548 posts, read 2,164,975 times
Reputation: 729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Backspace View Post
Not when they form a plan to kick down a door and break into a home that doesn't belong to them.
So once you engage in criminal acts you become an adult? Does this moronic rule apply 10 year olds? 9 year olds?
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Old 04-11-2012, 12:17 PM
 
14,917 posts, read 13,109,537 times
Reputation: 4828
Quote:
Originally Posted by ♪♫♪♪♫♫♪♥ View Post
I brung up self defense because that is always, always ALWAYS an issue, either potential or after the fact, and is thus absolutely relevant to burglaries, regardless of what details a news article conveniently lays out for you as the reader. If the article makes no mention of an attack then by your flawed logic you shouldn't assume that self defense wasn't needed which I'll safely presume is your guess, due to your childish insult of the man who shot someone breaking into his home. Jesus tapdancing christ man, why should anyone have to spell this out for you?

When someone poses a perceived threat to your well-being by breaking into your home while you're there, are the occupants supposed to wait and see if they're attacked and then try to defend themselves afterwards? If the kids had no intention of infliciting bodily harm then that's just peachy, but in the heat of the moment when your door and/or windows are suddenly busted open, there's no way to ascertain whether you'll be physically attacked or not. Forget about knowing what will happen, the burglar doesn't even know what will happen. I've never shot anyone let alone a teenage burglar (which apparently makes me a "real man" in your book! How sweet), but given the right circumstances, I'd rather be safe than sorry.
So you do think shooting and killing this kid was this man's best and/or only option? Really?
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Old 04-11-2012, 12:18 PM
 
Location: London UK & Florida USA
7,923 posts, read 8,850,084 times
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Absolute gun madness here !
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Old 04-11-2012, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,875 posts, read 26,532,311 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frugality View Post
So once you engage in criminal acts you become an adult? Does this moronic rule apply 10 year olds? 9 year olds?
So when do you call a criminal a criminal? When he's holding a gun to your head? Raping your wife or daughter? Attacking your child with a knife? All of these things are done by teenagers far too often.

Criminals are criminals, age is irrelevant, especially when they are assalting (or worse) you or your family.
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Old 04-11-2012, 12:52 PM
 
Location: NoVA
1,391 posts, read 2,647,531 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
So you do think shooting and killing this kid was this man's best and/or only option? Really?
Since I wasn't there, I can't say for a fact what options the man did or didn't have. Since you weren't there either, you can't say what options the man did or didn't have. Since none of us were there, one witness is dead, and the rest likely are not participating in this thread, we're all free to assume what we want; obviously you're going to assume whatever you want ("article doesn't mention self defense, ergo, self defense must not have been needed, ergo further, shooter didn't need to shoot and is therefore a heartless a$$hole"). One thing I hope we can all reasonably assume however, is that forcefully violating someone's property and personal rights can lead to tragic consequences. As for me, should I ever be standing face to face with a burglar I will be assuming that my life is in danger regardless of perceived age or what weapons I can see if any, and on that survival tactic, I hope I am able to act accordingly. Self defense is not just an option at all times (especially in Texas), it's a basic human right all over the world.

I can't speak for the shooter but it's at least plausible that he made that very assumption about the kid, and maybe, just maybe he never wanted to shoot a child. It's a crying shame that the dumb kid didn't assume that his criminal act would end in eating a lead sandwich.
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Massachusetts
10,029 posts, read 8,351,641 times
Reputation: 4212
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
I imagine if these children realized somebody was home, they would have fled instantly (they rang the doorbell to initially test if anybody was home) -- upon hearing kicking at the back door, why not scream out "You ****ers better not come in here. I got a gun"? Why not hesitate 2 or 3 seconds before firing? I imagine if these children had seen a grown man pointing a gun at them, they would have fled instantly. Why not shoot his leg?

This reminds me a bit of a story out of Colorado Springs a few years back. A guy literally shot and killed an "intruder" through a closed and locked door as he tried to get in. The "intruder" was a young, drunk guy whose designated driver accidentally dropped him off at the wrong house - the house happened to be the exact same model as his, just one block over.

This "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality is disgusting.

The "shoot the leg" comment you made just brought your complete ignorance of the matter to light.
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:25 PM
 
Location: London UK & Florida USA
7,923 posts, read 8,850,084 times
Reputation: 2059
We would all love to think our kids are not doing bad things when they are not with us but there isn't one parent on here who would know if their kid is involved in housebreaking or other crimes.
Be careful with all of this whooping it up when a homeowner opens fire on a home invasion without thinking do i need to shoot and is my life in danger............ the next door to be knocked on by the police could be yours.
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:54 PM
 
17,401 posts, read 11,984,970 times
Reputation: 16155
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
So you do think shooting and killing this kid was this man's best and/or only option? Really?
Yup. What other choice would he have? Sitting them down for a little chat? Calling out for them to "go away"? Asking them to please leave? Calling their mommies to come pick them up?

He wasn't a mind reader - thugs break in, he has a split second to make the assumption that these thugs were up to no good. Which any rational person would have assumed.
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