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GZ, premeditated and deliberated ---> 1st degree Murder. He should hang.
Not so fast. "Premeditated" and "deliberated" (or deliberately) would mean that GZ PLANNED to kill TM. I doubt that's the case or there would not have been a reason to call the cops.
I doubt that GZ set out that evening with the intention of finding TM somewhere in the neighborhood with the goal of killing him...
Reminds me of the "what was she wearing" question when a woman is raped.
Regarding the THC levels, Mark Nejame, a good friend of the defense lawyer, and the attorney who recommended him to the Zimmerman family, was on CNN using words like "significant levels." Yet a Forensic Scientist reports the levels were insignificant and statistically very small. He also said that these "trace amounts" would play no role whatsoever in Trayvon Martin's behavior.
"This kind of level can be seen days after somebody smokes,” Larry Kobilinsky, professor of forensic science at John Hay College of Criminal Justice, told CBS News. “If it comes up in the case, I would be surprised. It wouldn't benefit the defense, it wouldn't benefit the prosecution, and if the defense tried to bring it up, the judge would keep it out."
Also, the Sanford Police said:
"The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or conversely if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog (sic) in an effort to dispel each party's concern" the request said. "There is no indication that Trayvon Martin was involved in any criminal activity."
I wonder if anyone has the actual number. He's right though, it's probably inadmissible but that's entirely up to the trial judge.
Wrong, he was not kept for several hours, if he was there would have been a toxicology workup and forensics done on his clothes as well as other pertinent police work.
And yet you first claim that police didn't keep him long enough to question him...
Quote:
Originally Posted by simetime If you get bashed in the head as hard as he claims, the EMT would be insistant on him getting medical attention since it would have been possible that he may be suffering from a concussion which can kill you. I guess that it never occur to you or others that zimmerman did fight back. Just because he got his butt handed to him does not mean that he did not fight back. He had ample enough time to wash up once he got home and the incompentent police did not keep him long enough to question him or take clothing samples neverless a BAT
Quote:
When police arrived on the scene, Zimmerman told them that Martin had attacked him, and that he had shot Martin in self-defense.[2][16] Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose and mouth; and had two vertical lacerations on the back of his head.[17][18]EMTs treated Zimmerman at the scene, after which he was taken to the Sanford Police Department. Zimmerman was detained and questioned for approximately two hours,[18] during which time he taped a video statement, and was then released without being charged.[17] Police said that they had not found evidence to contradict his assertion of self-defense.[19][20][21][22]
OK, I'll grant you, 2 hours isn't what I'd call several, other news reports were different. But he was detained in handcuffs, transported and questioned.
Since the burden of proof is on the state, a witness to tm straddling and punching gz is important. Before you go to the next argument for the state, that eyewitness testimony is unreliable, the same can be said for any witness the state Might have to contradict the story.
I'm not arguing for the state. I'm saying that to think all the evidence is out there at this point is naive. Of course eye witnesses can and do contradict each other, so to think that just one eye witness who is saying something you might agree with will be the only witness and carry the case at trial is rather naive, IMO. Ultimately, the credibility of the witnesses is determined by the jury. It is the jury who gets to decide who they believe and who they don't believe. They will have to determine the believability of the witnesses who contradict each other.
Also, in this case, yes, the burden of proof is on the state, BUT the defense has asserted the affirmative defense of self defense, so there is a burden on the defense as well. That means they will have to put on evidence of self defense rather than remaining silent.
No look! the cashier is relly nervous because Trayvon has a hoodie on and is black! I guess he is getting ready to rob him! But like you said, if the clerk is not threatened and had a reason(?) to the be alarmed. So what was zimmerman's excuse?
Exactly! Even the Sanford Police agree with you.
[url=http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-05-17/zimmerman-trayvon-shooting-report/55046944/1]Police report: Trayvon Martin's shooting was 'avoidable'[/url]
"The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or conversely, if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog in an effort to dispel each party's concern," the report says. "There is no indication that Trayvon Martin was involved in any criminal activity at the time of the encounter."
What are you talking about? I've never took what the funeral director said as being relevant. Look you're on the losing side. Just make peace with that.
You said the "coroner" said the gunshot wound was a contact wound.
"The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or conversely, if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog in an effort to dispel each party's concern," the report says. "There is no indication that Trayvon Martin was involved in any criminal activity at the time of the encounter."
Is there a link to the real police report and not a secondary news story on it? The partial police report posted earlier does not say anything about the shooting being avoidable. But I don't see what difference it makes. The shooting could have been avoided if one of one-thousand things happened differently, but they didn't. For example, the shooting would have been avoided if Martin never got suspended from school, but he did. I don't see why any of those "what if" scenarios make a difference. The fact is that the confrontation happened and the only question is who started the physical encounter, or who escalated it.
This is the problem and we will have to take Z at his word because nobody saw anything leading up to the fight/shooting. If Z headed back to his truck when the 911 dispatcher told him ''we don't need you to do that'' and TM ambushed him with his back turned, then I can see a claim of self defense, but if he pursued TM even after he was asked not to and confronted or laid his hands on TM, then there can be no claim of self defense.
Again, We will have to take Z's word, He told the paramedics, '''I was screaming/yelling for help, but know one came'' This will be verified in court when they are called to testify
And that's my problem, Ghostrider; I find it difficult to believe that George
Zimmerman is telling the truth about everything. Unless he can prove that he acted in self-defense he'll be doing prison time, and that's a huge incentive to lie. Zimmerman's father said that his son's record was "squeaky clean." Since Zimmerman had no convictions that's technically true, but then we find that George has had violent incidents in his past, from accosting an undercover police officer to domestic violence to losing a job for being overly-aggressive. As I've asked before, if Zimmerman had taken a severe beating before killing Trayvon, why would he refuse immediate medical treatment to document the extent of those injuries? I'd want two photos of every minute scratch for my defense lawyer to use. It strains credulity to think that Zimmerman waited to see his family doctor the next day when, according to his brother, Trayvon had beaten George to the point that he feared being diapered and spoonfed for the rest of his life. He could have had a concussion, a skull fracture or a subdural hematoma, yet he chose to go home? That makes no sense. On the other hand, we have a 17 year-old whose only violence occurred on the football field. We learn that he spray-painted "wtf" on his school locker; how many of us left our initials carved into a wooden desktop back in the day? As for there being THC in Martin's body...I don't know about you, "aging hippie," but I won't cast the first stone. Knowing all of this, people are still willing to condemn the victim and exonerate the killer...to the extent that some question the measurements made by a licensed Medical Examiner. If one suggests that Zimmerman acted rashly by following Martin, some posters will accuse one of being "anti-self-defense." Seriously; do people believe that many who question Zimmerman's honesty would allow themselves to be beaten because they don't condone self-defense? Nor does it follow logically that we are anti-gun; had Zimmerman used a hunting knife, that would be the weapon under discussion. As a volunteer watch person, why didn't Zimmerman have/use pepper spray or Mace? And as has been asked so many times, why didn't Zimmerman stop following Martin when the police were en route? Clearly, LE shares that sentiment:
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