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Now the story is changing. Now that it looks like TM approached GZ, the apologist talk looks like "Well, if GZ just didn't get out of his car and call 911, none of this would've happened". Maybe if GZ just cowered in his house all night and didn't come out, TM would've been alive today?
How is the story changing and when did Martin approach Zimmerman? Neither you nor I know. There have been reports that Martin also had a black eye, so it is not unlikely Martin was just beating up Zimmerman with no response and since Martin also had this sort of injury, who is to say whether or not Zimmerman threw the punch that caused Martin's injury and Martin returned the favor by beating his a$$.
There was also a report where it was mentioned the Rx drugs that Zimmerman had in his possession that cause aggression. It is too bad the police didn't do their job and test his blood/urine for drugs on the night of the shooting who knows what would have been found.
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Originally Posted by summers73
None of the brain development arguments work unless TM was mentally retarded, which he was not.
Brain development in teens and adults is a valid science and it is shown that the human brain is not fully developed until the early 20s.
Except...the evidence doesn't back up your scenario. First, according to the 911 call, Martin didn't "walk away fast". The 911 call says "he's running". Shortly after Zimmerman starts running (footsteps and labored breating on the call). He stops when suggested not to by dispatch, and reports "I lost him". He remains on the phone with dispatch for another 1 1/2 minutes.
Slightly different scenario. Zimmerman is "observing and reporting" as a good NW volunteer should. He observes the suspect start running. He exists his vehicle to continue his function of "observing and reporting". He is some distance back and watching M so the police can make contact. As he is well within his rights to do. He stops when advised by dispatch (as supported by the tape). He reports to dispatch that he lost him and continues to talk to the dispatcher for another 1 1/2 minutes. He waits around for a while for the police to show, then starts walking back to his vehicle. (as usual, when help is needed in seconds, the police are minutes away).
Martin knows he has been watched and hears the guy on the phone with dispatch. He takes off running (as reported). He is getting angry that he should be running from someone when he has every right to be there. He gets to the door of his house and stops. He thinks, I have no reason to run, that SOB shouldn't be reporting me to the cops. He watches until Zimmerman hangs up with the police and begins retreating to his car. He then decides to leave his house and approach Zimmerman where he demands (according to his GFs statement) "Why are you following me"? TO which Zimmerman responds "What are you doing here?". After that, a fight starts. Who threw the first punch (the key factor IMO)...we have no idea. Or at least no evidence.
Now who is saying something that there is no evidence for. How would you presume to know what Martin is thinking or what he is doing when you don't have any proof as such.
Why are all of the pro-Zimmerman people in places like the South and Idaho...oh wait, nevermind. We know why.
Yes, we do. Because people in those places aren't blinded by racism and hatred. We look at facts and evidence and base conclusions on those things, and what scenarios fit the evidence, and not because of the race of the individuals involved.
It's a shame that so many let hate blind them to the world around them.
Now who is saying something that there is no evidence for. How would you presume to know what Martin is thinking or what he is doing when you don't have any proof as such.
Like I said, an alternative scenario to the one I was responding to, that also theorized about what Martin was thinking. Which is why I said "slightly different senario" as oppossed to stating that my comments were factual. Unlike the many that proport that Zimmerman was driven by racism and "know" that he was out to shoot down a black man that night.
Last edited by Toyman at Jewel Lake; 05-18-2012 at 12:08 PM..
How is the story changing and when did Martin approach Zimmerman? Neither you nor I know. There have been reports that Martin also had a black eye, so it is not unlikely Martin was just beating up Zimmerman with no response and since Martin also had this sort of injury, who is to say whether or not Zimmerman threw the punch that caused Martin's injury and Martin returned the favor by beating his a$$.
I'm looking forward to seeing the physical evidence of a black eye on TM.
Quote:
There was also a report where it was mentioned the Rx drugs that Zimmerman had in his possession that cause aggression. It is too bad the police didn't do their job and test his blood/urine for drugs on the night of the shooting who knows what would have been found.
THC in marijuana can lead to paranoid delusion (i.e. irrational fear of being followed) and/or aggression in some cases. I'm glad you agree with me that drugs on either side could make a difference.
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Brain development in teens and adults is a valid science and it is shown that the human brain is not fully developed until the early 20s.
That matter is irrelevant. Unless there's evidence that TM's brain isn't fully developed and was slow in some areas, I don't think this really is admissible as evidence. It's extremely speculative to suggest just how developed TM's brain was.
If you get bashed in the head as hard as he claims, the EMT would be insistant on him getting medical attention since it would have been possible that he may be suffering from a concussion which can kill you. I guess that it never occur to you or others that zimmerman did fight back. Just because he got his butt handed to him does not mean that he did not fight back. He had ample enough time to wash up once he got home and the incompentent police did not keep him long enough to question him or take clothing samples neverless a BAT
...If it weren't for the fact that he was handcuffed, taken to the police station and questioned for several hours, prior to being allowed to leave and go home, your scenario might seem reasonable. As it is, just silly. Do try to keep up.
Like I said, an alternative scenario to the one I was responding to. Like the many that proport that Zimmerman was driven by racism and "know" that he was out to shoot down a black man that night.
The more likely scenario is that GZ saw a young Black man (and assumed that he was responsible for previous break-ins in the area...solely because he was a young Black man) This made him biased/prejudiced not necessarily racist.
Instead of simply "observe and report", GZ went in pursuit. It was a very bad decision on his part. It is obvious from his background that he wanted to be in law enforcement but did not make the grade and he was fired from his security guard job for being to aggressive with customers. GZ was desperate to be in some sort of law enforcement capacity but was not qualified to do so. His was a dangerous conbination of craving a position of authority, frustration over his own shortcomings, a history of violence (arrests for assault of a police officer and domestic abuse) and just overall bad judgment.
GZ obviously made a mistake and he killed an unarmed teen in the process. I think that many of us who are appalled would be far more sympatheic had there been a more thorough investigation in the beginning by the police department and had the AG not attempted to sweep this under the rug. And if GZ wasn't trying to claim self defense and instead would just admit that he was overzealous and accidentally killed TM. The act of vilifying the victim is just beyond disgusting.
That matter is irrelevant. Unless there's evidence that TM's brain isn't fully developed and was slow in some areas, I don't think this really is admissible as evidence. It's extremely speculative to suggest just how developed TM's brain was.
It's actually very relevant, that's why the law treats juvenile offenders of crime differently from adults, because their brains are not fully formed and can still be rehabilitated (ever heard the phrase 'You can't teach an old klansman new tricks'?). And it's relevant to piecing together the scenario in question to determine motives and actions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007
Brain development in teens and adults is a valid science and it is shown that the human brain is not fully developed until the early 20s.
The more likely scenario is that GZ saw a young Black man (and assumed that he was responsible for previous break-ins in the area...solely because he was a young Black man)
Instead of simply "observe and report", GZ went in pursuit. It was a very bad decision on his part. It is obvious from his background that he wanted to be in law enforcement but did not make the grade and he was fired from his security guard job for being to aggressive with customers. GZ was desperate to be in some sort of law enforcement capacity but was not qualified to do so. His was a dangerous conbination of craving a position of authority, frustration over his own shortcomings, a history of violence (arrests for assault of a police officer and domestic abuse) and just overall bad judgment.
GZ obviously made a mistake and he killed an unarmed teen in the process. I think that many of us who are appalled would be far more sympatheic had there been a more thorough investigation in the beginning by the police department and had the AG not attempted to sweep this under the rug. And if GZ wasn't trying to claim self defense and instead would just admit that he was overzealous and accidentally killed TM. The act of vilifying the victim is just beyond disgusting.
Except that scenario doesn't fit the evidence real well. If it were true, why would he stop running when advised not to follow (as established by the 911 tape)? If he is in an active pursiut, why did he stop and continue to talk with 911? Wether he was "in pursuit" or "following and observing" when he left his car, any "pursuit" (or observation for that matter) ended when he stopped running and continued his conversation with dispatch.
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