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Not all Cubans are the same. The ones who came initially following Castro's assumption of power had much more in common with U.S. culture than the Mariel era and post-Soviet era.
Some folks have grown up all their lives expecting the government to be part of their lives and so readily accept Welfare, Food Stamps and the other services provided when they now land on U.S. shores. That would have been anathema to earlier generations.
The question is best answer by No for the reason above and the best assimilated are those who were here prior to the creation of hyphenated Americans were it was assimilate do be ostracized. That would encompass many cultural groups of Spanish descent such as my own.
Similar example of the Southern Europeans who arrived post-WWI, Northern European post-Civil War, etc.
Although there's a history of Cuban migration to the US related to the upheavals of Cuba going back as far as the 1800's, the majority of Cubans who are now living in the USA came after 1959, but not all at once. They've come in periodic migrations, 1960's, 70's, 80's,90's and they continue coming up to this date.
Athough you are correct that the one's that came in the early waves had more in common with the USA than the ones who have arrived in later years [for obvious reasons], its more than just the situation in the country that one comes from [ i.e. pre-castro, vs. pro-castro] that determines one's assimilation, it's also the amount of time that one has lived here. So, we have to look at Cubans and their assimilation into this country in terms of the migratory waves in which they have arrived. We can't expect, for instance, someone who arrived in 2004 to be as assimilated as someone who arrived in 1965. Also, the person's age also has a lot to do with their ability to assimilate quickly and thoroughly. A senior citizen is not going to assimilate as quickly as a youngster, especially if that youngster completes schooling in the US.
Although there's a history of Cuban migration to the US related to the upheavals of Cuba going back as far as the 1800's, the majority of Cubans who are now living in the USA came after 1959, but not all at once. They've come in periodic migrations, 1960's, 70's, 80's,90's and they continue coming up to this date.
Athough you are correct that the one's that came in the early waves had more in common with the USA than the ones who have arrived in later years [for obvious reasons], its more than just the situation in the country that one comes from [ i.e. pre-castro, vs. pro-castro] that determines one's assimilation, it's also the amount of time that one has lived here. So, we have to look at Cubans and their assimilation into this country in terms of the migratory waves in which they have arrived. We can't expect, for instance, someone who arrived in 2004 to be as assimilated as someone who arrived in 1965. Also, the person's age also has a lot to do with their ability to assimilate quickly and thoroughly. A senior citizen is not going to assimilate as quickly as a youngster, especially if that youngster completes schooling in the US.
Overall, Cubans have assimilated remarkably.
Really? Then why do most Cubans still use Spanish as their primary language of usage? Why does one need to know Spanish to get a job in Miami? Is that what you call assimilation?
Really? Then why do most Cubans still use Spanish as their primary language of usage? Why does one need to know Spanish to get a job in Miami? Is that what you call assimilation?
Wrong. First and Second generation American-born Cubans do not use Spanish as their primary language. And in any case, since when is language the only criteria for assimilation? A person's integration into the fiber of society as a productive citizen is a more important determining factor.
For instance, I know a Cuban doctor who came to the US five years ago. The first thing that he did was work in a sweat shop and after he saved enough money, he purchased a $900.00 set of CDs to learn English on his own. After he learned enough English to get by, he then went to night school and got a nursing degree. After he started making a good salary, he purchased a car and a condominium. He is now a productive tax paying member of society who is contributing to the economics of the USA. His primary language is still Spanish and he speaks it with a very heavy accent, but he is what I would call assimilated even though his primary language is still Spanish.
Wrong. First and Second generation American-born Cubans do not use Spanish as their primary language. And in any case, since when is language the only criteria for assimilation? A person's integration into the fiber of society as a productive citizen is a more important determining factor.
For instance, I know a Cuban doctor who came to the US five years ago. The first thing that he did was work in a sweat shop and after he saved enough money, he purchased a $900.00 set of CDs to learn English on his own. After he learned enough English to get by, he then went to night school and got a nursing degree. After he started making a good salary, he purchased a car and a condominium. He is now a productive tax paying member of society who is contributing to the economics of the USA. His primary language is still Spanish and he speaks it with a very heavy accent, but he is what I would call assimilated even though his primary language is still Spanish.
That is what I have read and heard even in this forum that you can't get by in Miami without knowing Spanish and that it resembles little Havana. I haven't been to Miami but know a few people that have and they also back that up.
You're correct that language isn't the only assimilation factor but it is right up there in the top 3.
That is what I have read and heard even in this forum that you can't get by in Miami without knowing Spanish and that it resembles little Havana. I haven't been to Miami but know a few people that have and they also back that up.
You're correct that language isn't the only assimilation factor but it is right up there in the top 3.
Well, I would take what I hear from some of the people on this forum like a grain of salt. There are people here who are extremely bitter and biased and they talk a lot of nonsense. They're not interested in advancing an argument with reasoned discourse, rather, they are only interested in blowing off hot steam. When you confront them with facts, they reply with flippant and sarcastic answers or they ignore you, then further down the line, they repeat the same allegations that you refuted earlier on.
There is an area of Miami that is called "Little Havana" in the Southwest of the city that was given that name, because that is the first place that the Cubans moved into when they first migrated to Florida. That area has since become mainly Central American as the Cuban community moved out years ago.
To say that you can't get by in Miami without knowing Spanish is a gross exaggeration. How can you not get by without knowing Spanish? Do you think that police officers, firemen, teachers, librarians, doctors, nurses, bankers, postmen, etc..in other words, people who run a city don't speak English? Do you think that if you call 911, someone is going to tell you, "sorry, I don't speak English?" Do you think that if [God Forbid], you get into an accident and an ambulance comes to pick you up, the driver won't be able to speak English to you?
If Cubans don't speak English then how is it possible that over 20% of Cubans have college educations? To my knowledge, there is not one college in the USA where you get get a Bachelor's, Masters, Ph.D, a law degree, an MD, or an engineering degree only in Spanish. If Cubans don't speak English, then why do Cuban women born in the USA [and this is backed by facts] have such a high rate of out-of-ethnic intermarriage with American men? Do you think that those American men who marry those Cuban women speak Spanish? If Cubans only speak Spanish, how is it possible for them to have such a large middle class? Disenfranchised people and people that don't speak English are not able to get professional or descent white collar jobs in the USA. They are usually stuck in the lower ranks, cleaning dishes, being busboys, cleaning offices or any number of low paying menial jobs.
The fact is that Cubans have started speaking English at the same rate as other groups that have come before them. Spanish continues to be the primary language of Cubans who have come as adults to the USA, while English has become the primary language of 1st generation American-born Cubans. By the 2nd generation, Spanish skills are mostly if not totally lost and English becomes the only language that they speak. This is backed by facts.
But getting back to assimilation, as I have said, there are man factors involved in assimilation. Yes, learning English is one of the factors, but some people will point a finger at someone who speaks with an accent and accuse him or her of not being able to speak English. As if anybody who arrives as an adult can ever speak without an accent, or can easily command the language without problems.
I'll give you an example, I used to know a Cuban American who was a psychoanalyst. He arrived to the US as a teenager and got his MD at New York University if I remember correctly. He went on to become the head of the psychiatric wing of a major hospital in NYC. In other words, he would be what anyone would call completely assimilated. Yet, he told me that he was on a airport line one day and that this woman tried to get in front of him, when he told her in no uncertain terms to get behind him, she shot back, "this idiot can't even speak English." He spoke English alright, but with an accent. So, here you have a man who is not only an MD, but the head of a psychiatric wing of a major hospital making a 6 figure salary with a house in a upscale neighborhood, and yet, someone is implying that he can't speak English. As if only someone without a foreign accent could be considered an English speaker.
Yes, there are many Cubans who don't speak English, simply because Miami is a small city and there is such a large influx of Cubans arriving yearly to the city [20,000 a year]. Many of those people take low paying jobs, because they can't get other jobs. They may be employed in Cuban American owned gas stations, grocery stores, restaurants, etc.. Thus giving the impression to some Americans that Cubans don't speak English, but they don't consider that these people are newly arrived. Meanwhile, as I mentioned in an earlier post, the American-born Cubans are often invisible to many Americans. They blend in, so that you can be surrounded by them and not know it. Some people will fixate on two or three people speaking Spanish while surrounded by a dozen who are speaking English and they will assume that only the Spanish speakers are Cubans, while the English speakers will also be Cuban-Americans. This can give rise to the ill-intentioned impression that nobody speaks English.
Well, I would take what I hear from some of the people on this forum like a grain of salt. There are people here who are extremely bitter and biased and they talk a lot of nonsense. They're not interested in advancing an argument with reasoned discourse, rather, they are only interested in blowing off hot steam. When you confront them with facts, they reply with flippant and sarcastic answers or they ignore you, then further down the line, they repeat the same allegations that you refuted earlier on.
There is an area of Miami that is called "Little Havana" in the Southwest of the city that was given that name, because that is the first place that the Cubans moved into when they first migrated to Florida. That area has since become mainly Central American as the Cuban community moved out years ago.
To say that you can't get by in Miami without knowing Spanish is a gross exaggeration. How can you not get by without knowing Spanish? Do you think that police officers, firemen, teachers, librarians, doctors, nurses, bankers, postmen, etc..in other words, people who run a city don't speak English? Do you think that if you call 911, someone is going to tell you, "sorry, I don't speak English?" Do you think that if [God Forbid], you get into an accident and an ambulance comes to pick you up, the driver won't be able to speak English to you?
If Cubans don't speak English then how is it possible that over 20% of Cubans have college educations? To my knowledge, there is not one college in the USA where you get get a Bachelor's, Masters, Ph.D, a law degree, an MD, or an engineering degree only in Spanish. If Cubans don't speak English, then why do Cuban women born in the USA [and this is backed by facts] have such a high rate of out-of-ethnic intermarriage with American men? Do you think that those American men who marry those Cuban women speak Spanish? If Cubans only speak Spanish, how is it possible for them to have such a large middle class? Disenfranchised people and people that don't speak English are not able to get professional or descent white collar jobs in the USA. They are usually stuck in the lower ranks, cleaning dishes, being busboys, cleaning offices or any number of low paying menial jobs.
The fact is that Cubans have started speaking English at the same rate as other groups that have come before them. Spanish continues to be the primary language of Cubans who have come as adults to the USA, while English has become the primary language of 1st generation American-born Cubans. By the 2nd generation, Spanish skills are mostly if not totally lost and English becomes the only language that they speak. This is backed by facts.
But getting back to assimilation, as I have said, there are man factors involved in assimilation. Yes, learning English is one of the factors, but some people will point a finger at someone who speaks with an accent and accuse him or her of not being able to speak English. As if anybody who arrives as an adult can ever speak without an accent, or can easily command the language without problems.
I'll give you an example, I used to know a Cuban American who was a psychoanalyst. He arrived to the US as a teenager and got his MD at New York University if I remember correctly. He went on to become the head of the psychiatric wing of a major hospital in NYC. In other words, he would be what anyone would call completely assimilated. Yet, he told me that he was on a airport line one day and that this woman tried to get in front of him, when he told her in no uncertain terms to get behind him, she shot back, "this idiot can't even speak English." He spoke English alright, but with an accent. So, here you have a man who is not only an MD, but the head of a psychiatric wing of a major hospital making a 6 figure salary with a house in a upscale neighborhood, and yet, someone is implying that he can't speak English. As if only someone without a foreign accent could be considered an English speaker.
Yes, there are many Cubans who don't speak English, simply because Miami is a small city and there is such a large influx of Cubans arriving yearly to the city [20,000 a year]. Many of those people take low paying jobs, because they can't get other jobs. They may be employed in Cuban American owned gas stations, grocery stores, restaurants, etc.. Thus giving the impression to some Americans that Cubans don't speak English, but they don't consider that these people are newly arrived. Meanwhile, as I mentioned in an earlier post, the American-born Cubans are often invisible to many Americans. They blend in, so that you can be surrounded by them and not know it. Some people will fixate on two or three people speaking Spanish while surrounded by a dozen who are speaking English and they will assume that only the Spanish speakers are Cubans, while the English speakers will also be Cuban-Americans. This can give rise to the ill-intentioned impression that nobody speaks English.
Did you miss the part where I said that I know some people myself who have been to Miami and they say the same things about that city? My point was that you can't even get a job in Miami without knowing Spanish. Why would that be when most Cuban-Americans know English also? I never said that Cuban-Americans don't know English just that they do not use it as their primary language of usage ever after being here for decades. I couldn't care less if they speak it with an accent nor do most Americans. So that is just a cop out excuse for them refusing to speak English unless they have to.
It is the same thing here in the southwest. Hispanics usually learn English but they refuse to speak it unless they have to. I think it is because we are allowing in more Hispanics (Cubans, Mexicans and other Latinos) into this country than any other groups by far so they don't feel the need to assimilate to our language. We need diversty quotas back and end "wet foot, dry foot".
Rayarena has an agenda and only his personal anecdotes have value.(Yours and mine are diminished in value or disregarded) There are critical errors in his/her analysis of what constitutes assimilation. I gave up on this discussion a few posts back when he contradicted his/her position on Cuban assimilation and newer intakes.
But this is C-D and that is how things are.
We would have to proper sociologists with verified data analysis to present anything other than our opinions on such a wide and far reaching subject in any case. The Pew Research Center would be a more useful source of information.
Did you miss the part where I said that I know some people myself who have been to Miami and they say the same things about that city? My point was that you can't even get a job in Miami without knowing Spanish. Why would that be when most Cuban-Americans know English also? I never said that Cuban-Americans don't know English just that they do not use it as their primary language of usage ever after being here for decades. I couldn't care less if they speak it with an accent nor do most Americans. So that is just a cop out excuse for them refusing to speak English unless they have to.
It is the same thing here in the southwest. Hispanics usually learn English but they refuse to speak it unless they have to. I think it is because we are allowing in more Hispanics (Cubans, Mexicans and other Latinos) into this country than any other groups by far so they don't feel the need to assimilate to our language. We need diversty quotas back and end "wet foot, dry foot".
I didn't miss the part where you said that you know people who have been to Miami, etc.., but it appears that either you didn't read my entire post or you glossed over it, or it went over your head. Go to the last paragraph of my previous post and you will see my response.
Miami is a bilingual city, that is to say, municipal documents are printed in English and Spanish. I would imagine that for certain jobs, Spanish is required, but I would not say that you cannot get a job if you don't speak Spanish. It would be more accurate to say that you can't get certain jobs if you can't speak Spanish. Look at the economy of Miami. It's a city that relies heavily on two things: International commerce and trade and tourism. Miami is the gateway to Latin America. Most of its trade is with Central and South America. What do Central and South Americans speak? If I need to hire someone who works in an import business, will I hire someone who only speaks English even though 99% of my customers are from Latin America? If I work as the manager of a Best Western in Miami and half of my customers are rich South Americans who frequently visit Miami, will I hire a receptionist who only speaks English?
Perhaps if Miami were like Detroit that has a car industry, bilingualism would not be a problem, but when your economy is tied into commerce and trade and tourism, it becomes an issue.
This has nothing to do with Cubans not wanting to assimilate. It has to do with money and what's in the best interest of running the local economy.
When I went to Paris, I noticed that in the metro [subway station], announcements were made in FRENCH, ENGLISH, GERMAN, ITALIAN AND SPANISH. The French who are notoriously ethnocentric and proud of their language, permit this because it is in the best interest of their economy, since they rely so heavily on tourism.
Rayarena has an agenda and only his personal anecdotes have value.(Yours and mine are diminished in value or disregarded) There are critical errors in his/her analysis of what constitutes assimilation. I gave up on this discussion a few posts back when he contradicted his/her position on Cuban assimilation and newer intakes.
But this is C-D and that is how things are.
We would have to proper sociologists with verified data analysis to present anything other than our opinions on such a wide and far reaching subject in any case. The Pew Research Center would be a more useful source of information.
You have very poor communications skills, and you're not going convince anyone by making adhominem attacks. But please educate us and tell us what critical analytical errors I have made regarding assimilation and please tell us how I contradicted myself?
I didn't miss the part where you said that you know people who have been to Miami, etc.., but it appears that either you didn't read my entire post or you glossed over it, or it went over your head. Go to the last paragraph of my previous post and you will see my response.
Miami is a bilingual city, that is to say, municipal documents are printed in English and Spanish. I would imagine that for certain jobs, Spanish is required, but I would not say that you cannot get a job if you don't speak Spanish. It would be more accurate to say that you can't get certain jobs if you can't speak Spanish. Look at the economy of Miami. It's a city that relies heavily on two things: International commerce and trade and tourism. Miami is the gateway to Latin America. Most of its trade is with Central and South America. What do Central and South Americans speak? If I need to hire someone who works in an import business, will I hire someone who only speaks English even though 99% of my customers are from Latin America? If I work as the manager of a Best Western in Miami and half of my customers are rich South Americans who frequently visit Miami, will I hire a receptionist who only speaks English?
Perhaps if Miami were like Detroit that has a car industry, bilingualism would not be a problem, but when your economy is tied into commerce and trade and tourism, it becomes an issue.
This has nothing to do with Cubans not wanting to assimilate. It has to do with money and what's in the best interest of running the local economy.
When I went to Paris, I noticed that in the metro [subway station], announcements were made in FRENCH, ENGLISH, GERMAN, ITALIAN AND SPANISH. The French who are notoriously ethnocentric and proud of their language, permit this because it is in the best interest of their economy, since they rely so heavily on tourism.
Good points all the way around, especially with respect to International trade. The US makes money because of this, so it really is a benefit to us all. Bilingual capibility or more is absolutely needed for International trade.
I can understand the source of the Xenophobia though. It would be no different than a large group of Engish speaking Americans moving to Cuba and some refusing to learn Spanish. When Florida or California trend tawards being a sepratist state (The Re-Conquista move in the S/W or Quebec come to mind) based on Culture and language, then that would be a problem.
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