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Old 07-28-2012, 10:19 AM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,216 posts, read 8,137,105 times
Reputation: 2037

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
T
They would, the same way they fought the British. You forget that history of this country started with rejection of the government. You forgest that big swaths of this country were explored by adventurous people who did not wait for the government to form official expeditions. You forget about Minutemen, Alamo, volunteers and everything else that made this country great.
Yes they were fighting the British government, not government in general. They certainly didn't want anarchy.

Quote:
I bet three hundred years ago there were people like you arguing that the King of England is not that bad. He may be taxing us senseless but look at the security British soldiers provide, look at the roads and cities His Majersty government built with our tax money, look at the bigger picture. We need the King to survive. We should all just shut up, pay our taxes and be greatful God gave us the King, someone who knows better and can show us the way.
So what's your point?

I've been arguing that our private and public interest cooperated which made this country great. What are you arguing for again?

Quote:
You see, complacent, gutless people like you have always been a problem, 300 hundred years ago and today. Unfortunately today there is more and more people like you and less people who would rather take things into their own hands. That's exatly why we are failing.
Gutless is making insults like that over an anonymous forum.

 
Old 07-28-2012, 10:25 AM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,216 posts, read 8,137,105 times
Reputation: 2037
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo View Post
Thanks, I get it. We are too far apart to even communicate. The government totally owns you and you like it, and you believe it owns everybody and they should like it. You see no role for individual differentiation except to attribute defects to business people. And you love, love, love Barack Obama. Spread your views as widely as possible, at least up until Election Day.
No. No one ss saying they like it or everyone should like it. We are trying to point out how this country was made through private and public interests. You and your cohorts are so busy on your knees performing gratitous sexual acts on the job creators I don't think you know what the argument is. Instead you stick with putting words in other people's mouth trying to make this argument suit you. Again what is the argument here?

Last edited by dv1033; 07-28-2012 at 11:01 AM..
 
Old 07-28-2012, 02:07 PM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,805,065 times
Reputation: 624
Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
Yes they were fighting the British government, not government in general. They certainly didn't want anarchy.
According to you they should just be grateful there is government and is taking care of them. Instead they took things into their own hands. You see the patters? Private citizens put their own well-being over well-being of the entire Imperium. That really shows you what is more important government or the individuals, at least in American tradition.
 
Old 07-28-2012, 02:23 PM
 
9,848 posts, read 8,300,259 times
Reputation: 3296
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
According to you they should just be grateful there is government and is taking care of them. Instead they took things into their own hands. You see the patters? Private citizens put their own well-being over well-being of the entire Imperium. That really shows you what is more important government or the individuals, at least in American tradition.

Obama's thinking is like the old communist Russia, isn't it?
 
Old 07-28-2012, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Hinckley Ohio
6,721 posts, read 5,213,681 times
Reputation: 1378
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel12 View Post
According to you they should just be grateful there is government and is taking care of them. Instead they took things into their own hands. You see the patters? Private citizens put their own well-being over well-being of the entire Imperium. That really shows you what is more important government or the individuals, at least in American tradition.
Nonsense, what was the first thing they did once the sent Cornwallis packing. They began forming their own government. A government BY the people.

What, in your mind is the purpose of government? Isn't to provide for the common good?
 
Old 07-28-2012, 03:42 PM
 
2,920 posts, read 2,805,065 times
Reputation: 624
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzards27 View Post
Nonsense, what was the first thing they did once the sent Cornwallis packing. They began forming their own government. A government BY the people.

What, in your mind is the purpose of government? Isn't to provide for the common good?
Yes it is. But it tends to degenerate over time and forgets its role. As very well illustrated but the failed Obama speech.
 
Old 07-28-2012, 03:53 PM
 
Location: it depends
6,369 posts, read 6,424,524 times
Reputation: 6388
Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
No. No one ss saying they like it or everyone should like it. We are trying to point out how this country was made through private and public interests. You and your cohorts are so busy on your knees performing gratitous sexual acts on the job creators I don't think you know what the argument is. Instead you stick with putting words in other people's mouth trying to make this argument suit you. Again what is the argument here?
In 1776, with the shot heard around the world, liberty and freedom took root and emancipated people from a monarchy...to be followed by the rise of individual freedoms all around the world. There is a direct correlation between freedom and prosperity. The life of the average person did not change much between 776 and 1776, with the vast majority of the population world-wide engaged in a brutal subsistence existence. Now, the average person lives a longer, healthier, and better life than kings and dictators and emporers and princes did in 1776. How is it that nothing happened for a thousand years, then we had centuries of unimaginable progress and prosperity? Individual freedom.

The all-powerful state is a concept that has been tried in every form, and has been found wanting. Government provides legitimate social goods of benefit to all; the better-off tenth of us now pay the vast majority of the cost of those goods in the US. We need government to organize and provide those societal basics.

But America owes the greatest part of her prosperity and progress to the simple fact that here, more than anywhere else in the world, her people have been more free to unlock the highest fraction of their own potential, largely for their individual benefit.

The counter-example is Mao's China and the attempt to collectivize agriculture. Tens of millions starved; only when individuals were allowed to work a small fraction of the land for their own benefit did enough food appear to feed the nation.

Konraden's excretions here refer to individuals as ants, inconsequential and unimportant. In fact, the political traditions of America that prize individual achievement are at the core of our prosperity. Carnegie, Ford, Rockefeller, Edison, Gates, Moore, Dell...these were no ants.

Humans are social beings. The rule of law, property rights, and other aspects of human organization of course require government. But a free people, able to vote with their wallets for the best values they can find, and equally entitled to get in the arena to compete for the dollars of others with the best fruits of their own effort, are the engines of prosperity and growth.

It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. Adam Smith
 
Old 07-28-2012, 04:04 PM
 
9,848 posts, read 8,300,259 times
Reputation: 3296
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo View Post
It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. Adam Smith

From the MARKET, not from the government or the soon-to-be-gone Obama.
 
Old 07-28-2012, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,564 posts, read 12,849,169 times
Reputation: 9400
America was built on an ancient concept- a Christian one..."I have not come to save the whole flock- I have come to save the ONE lost sheep that has fallen into the pit" to para phrase. This idea states that once the rights of one individual are trampled on- the rights of the whole collective flock are in jeopardy. This socialist crap about the "common good" that you can harm a person in the presumed idea that 10 others will do better through the sacrifice...This is the basic evil of socialism..of liberalism..

The individual is worth a million lives- and a million lives are the value of one individual..This system of law is what allowed the American empire to thrive...now that it is moving to the common good set of values- decline results.
 
Old 07-28-2012, 04:15 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,216 posts, read 8,137,105 times
Reputation: 2037
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo View Post
In 1776, with the shot heard around the world, liberty and freedom took root and emancipated people from a monarchy...to be followed by the rise of individual freedoms all around the world. There is a direct correlation between freedom and prosperity. The life of the average person did not change much between 776 and 1776, with the vast majority of the population world-wide engaged in a brutal subsistence existence. Now, the average person lives a longer, healthier, and better life than kings and dictators and emporers and princes did in 1776. How is it that nothing happened for a thousand years, then we had centuries of unimaginable progress and prosperity? Individual freedom.

The all-powerful state is a concept that has been tried in every form, and has been found wanting. Government provides legitimate social goods of benefit to all; the better-off tenth of us now pay the vast majority of the cost of those goods in the US. We need government to organize and provide those societal basics.

But America owes the greatest part of her prosperity and progress to the simple fact that here, more than anywhere else in the world, her people have been more free to unlock the highest fraction of their own potential, largely for their individual benefit.

The counter-example is Mao's China and the attempt to collectivize agriculture. Tens of millions starved; only when individuals were allowed to work a small fraction of the land for their own benefit did enough food appear to feed the nation.

Konraden's excretions here refer to individuals as ants, inconsequential and unimportant. In fact, the political traditions of America that prize individual achievement are at the core of our prosperity. Carnegie, Ford, Rockefeller, Edison, Gates, Moore, Dell...these were no ants.

Humans are social beings. The rule of law, property rights, and other aspects of human organization of course require government. But a free people, able to vote with their wallets for the best values they can find, and equally entitled to get in the arena to compete for the dollars of others with the best fruits of their own effort, are the engines of prosperity and growth.

It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. Adam Smith
What exactly are you arguing for? Do you even know what I am arguing for? or anyone else for that matter?
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