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Old 02-07-2013, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Currently I physically reside on the 3rd planet from the sun
2,220 posts, read 1,878,203 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
If you send your child to 1st grade without basic reading skills, you've failed your child.

If you send your child to school hungry, you've failed your child.

If you send your child to school without the basic tools, (pencils, copy book, erasers, etc.), you've failed your child.

If you send your child to school without having checked their homework, you've failed your child.

If you send your child to school dirty, you've failed your child.

If you send your child to school without a proper nights sleep, you've failed your child.

NO child should ever receive a report card until the 6th grade.....up to that point, the report card should be on the parents. And not based on test grades....it should be based on the things which I mentioned above.

Teachers are under extreme pressure and when they have to take time from other students in order to take care of your irresponsibility, they become less effective.
Give me a break.
Many if not most parents are irresponsible but teachers aren't put-upon saints by any stretch of the imagination. Schools try to exploit the apathy of most parents to usurp parental rights of all children.

Public Schools for the most part suck and while there are some tremendous teachers, most reflect the environment they work in.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:30 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,921,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Chicago Public School District teachers. And they went on strike for more. The deal to end the strike: an average 17.6% pay raise over four years PLUS increased benefits.

Chicago teachers had already earned an average of about $76,000 annually, according to CPS, for 185 days of work.

Most people who work full-time work 240 days [5 x 50 (two weeks vacation) - 10 (holidays) = 240].
1. It is not 185 days of work. Teachers work many more days and hours than you believe. Teachers do work on their vacations frequently doing grading or preparing lesson plans. Teaching is more than what happens in the classroom.

2. If the average is that high, it is because many of the teachers have masters and phds and have been teaching for many years. The starting salary with a bachelors degree is $47,249 total compensation. The average salary also counts the pension pickup so that is not money the teacher has to spend, but money for retirement (and teachers do contribute to their retirement as well). Note that the median salary for Chicago teachers is less.

3. Chicago teachers make more than most public school teachers, but they work under some awful conditions given the high poverty of the urban schools. Very few of the middle class or wealthy parents put their children in any Chicago public school. A few do get their kids into the better magnet schools.

Now note, Chicago is pretty far up on the pay scale, but most teachers are not paid that well
How the Chicago Public School District Compares - Graphic - NYTimes.com
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:07 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,921,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
"Excellence" is in the eye of the beholder. It's the Lake Wobegon syndrome. Many think their schools are great and it's everyone else's schools that are bad, ineffective, inefficient, dumbing everyone down, etc.

The actual fact is that the top students in the US rank last compared to the top students in other countries.
No, they do NOT rank last.

I posted a link before, but our top students actually outrank Japan and China in math and science. And they are second to only one country in the reading tests.

The United States has one of the biggest gaps between high- and low-performing students in an industrialized nation.

How do United States students compare to students in other countries?

Quote:
One of the most interesting new trends in international comparisons is the effort by some policy groups to compare individual states — rather than the United States as a whole — with other countries. This is seen as a way to pressure state governments to improve education. It also highlights the discrepancy in education that exists within the U.S.
The National Governors Association, the Council of Chief State School Officers, and Achieve, an education advocacy organization, are researching ways to compare states with other countries to tease out information on best practices and global competitiveness.

The first such study linked the U.S. National Educational Assessment of Progress (NAEP) results with TIMSS results and produced such interesting comparisons as:
• Students in Massachusetts, one of the highest performing states, are on par with students in Japan in math.
• In science, students in Massachusetts, Minnesota, Montana, New Hampshire, North Dakota, South Dakota, Vermont and Wisconsin are behind students in Singapore and Taiwan only, but are equal to or ahead of students in the other 45 countries in the TIMSS.
• Students in the District of Columbia had the lowest math scores in the U.S., putting them behind students in 29 countries, but ahead of 14 countries.
• Students in Alabama, a low-performing state, do better in math and science than students in most foreign countries.

The study analyzed the scores of eighth-grade American students in standardized tests given by the U.S. Department of Education in 2005 and 2007, and compared them with their peers in 45 countries. The foreign students' scores came from TIMSS administered worldwide in 2003.

Although the report warns that the U.S. is falling behind in preparing future generations to be globally competitive, the subtitle is 8th Graders in Most U.S. States Performing Better in Math and Science than Students in Most Foreign Countries.
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:07 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,029 posts, read 44,840,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
This is simply not true. Our top students actually do quite well.
No, they don't.
Quote:
“Clearly, we have some room to improve, particularly at the number of advanced students we have compared to the world,” said Jack Buckley, the commissioner of the National Center for Education Statistics at the Education Department, which administers and analyzes the results of the tests in the United States.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/11/ed...ests-show.html

Nearly all of the focus is on low-achieveing struggling students who many times have limited potential. The U.S. totally wastes the intellectual and academic potential of our brightest students in the name of "fair" equal outcomes-based education.
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:11 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,029 posts, read 44,840,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
1. It is not 185 days of work. Teachers work many more days and hours than you believe. Teachers do work on their vacations frequently doing grading or preparing lesson plans. Teaching is more than what happens in the classroom.
That's why teachers have "free" periods. I know for a fact that teachers DO NOT teach the entire school day. If they can't get their work done during work hours, that's their problem. Everyone else in the private sector faces those same challenges and many people bring work home with them, as well.
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:13 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,029 posts, read 44,840,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
No, they do NOT rank last.

I posted a link before, but our top students actually outrank Japan and China in math and science.
No, they don't. Your link says nothing about comparing U.S. calculus and physics students to their international peers.
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:20 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,921,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
Sorry ... but this is a crock of malarkey ... given the current data, one would be forced to wonder how the previous countless generations survived an extinction event. The reality is, with all of the so called precautions employed to keep kids "safe", they've never been an any greater danger that they are today ... but the dangers are not from falling off a tricycle and becoming brain damaged. The danger is in the poison vaccines, and the genetically modified food, and the filth fed their little minds, all contributing to brain damage, among other affected organs.

Of course you don't know why. But you should ... and there really is no excuse for not knowing why. It's really quite simple ... one not need teach young children about age inappropriate topics like sex and homosexuality to young children to affect the results which are alleged to be the motive here. It's simply a matter of reinforcing the concept of kindness and compassion toward others, PERIOD. They need not be indoctrinated with this liberal mind F%^ nonsense at such an inappropriate age.

I'm coming from an IQ range that exceeds my shoe size, where are you? Are you the only freaking person on planet earth that has not heard about the explosion of autism from the 30 odd vaccines being pumped into kids these days, or the thousands of maimed young girls from the HPV vaccine, to which California wants the age of consent to be set so that the 12 year old kids themselves can give consent for that poison without their parents knowledge? Do you know WHY ? It's because these ghouls now know that too many parents have actually become informed sufficiently to say not just no ... but hell freaking no you are not putting that poison in my child? That's why. And I will have you know that I personally have experience with a family member that was terribly harmed by childhood vaccines, clobbered at 2, and that kid couldn't speak a coherent sentence at age 5. Expert after expert mainstream doctor tested and poked and prodded this kid, to no avail. He was classified as autistic, and that was that. Now this happened to my nephew, and the sad part about it was that while my sister was pregnant, I gave her a ream of printed information with all the warnings of the dangers of these vaccinations, which she summarily ignored. Furthermore, to a degree of ignorance which I find unfathomable ... she even ignored the very symptoms of that damage outlined in the information I gave her which was an IDENTICAL MATCH to the symptoms my nephew was experiencing! THREE YEARS of ineffective mainstream treatments later, she finally acquiesced, and consulted me on what she should do. Well, to make a long story short, he was taken on by an alternative natural practitioner, who started him on the long heavy metal detoxification he needed to rid his body of that crap. It took over a year, and $500 a month in just vitamin, mineral and detox supplements, not to mention the weekly doctor's office visit bills THAT WERE NOT COVERED BY HIS "HEALTH" INSURANCE .. all in all, about $20,000 later ... he began making a slow but miraculous recovery. Today, he's a teenager who gets straight A's in high school, and is as normal as any kid you ever met, though he does have a weakened immune system and catches every cold or flu bug within his proximity. Sadly, and disgustingly, there are 10's if not 100's of Thousands of kids just like him that are not getting the proper treatment to reverse this damage, no doubt due to the strenuous denial of the medical establishment that would rather these kids remain damaged, than to admit culpability of the vaccines by employing said detoxification protocols. They are criminally negligent child killers for the express motive of ten's of Billions of dollars in pharmaceutical profits. And that's a G-D fact. So don't you dare give me this crap you're peddling here. I KNOW BETTER.

You wanna know what's almost as sad? That a human being can actually be convinced to buy this steaming load of manure of "Herd Protection". Whenever I run across such types, the response I get when I challenge this nonsense is in effect ... "just cuz" Because that's the extent of the possible response. But let's see how you do it .. maybe I'll be surprised?

If the vaccines actually worked as claimed, then those vaccinated should have no worries about being compromised or put in jeopardy by others who are not vaccinated. This little nugget of wisdom should be self evident, even to a drooling imbecile. You're vaccinated, you're protected. Period. So if you're protected, someone else could not be a threat to pass the virus to you. Therefore, this crap about "herd protection" can only be embraced by those who actually should be classified as members of a herd ... a herd of sheeple.

It doesn't surprise me that you'd miss the huge difference between the age old philosophical requirement of securing informed consent, which places the onus on the deliverer of this "medical treatment" to gain permission, versus the "opt out" fraud of placing the onus on each individual parent to take action to preempt this medicating of their children which can and does produce many "mistakes" and "accidents", like missing the opt out paperwork, or missing the obligation to inform the parent of an upcoming event and their option to opt out.

You want to know how deceptive, sneaky and criminal these ghouls really are? My Nephew again ... who has already been damaged by vaccines, and had a medical exemption from the state where they used to live before moving to Texas. Unbeknownst to his mother, Texas does not recognize out-of-state medical exemptions. She was informed of this fact at the time of a new vaccine put on the Texas schedule. Here's the catch 22 ... the State will take approximately 30 days to "process" this out-of-state exemption, but the school required him to have the vaccine immediately or have in possession the exemption, otherwise he would be sent home and not allowed to come to school until one or the other was done. The catch ... after three days, she'd be in violation of truancy laws, and subject to CPS action, which they informed her (threatened) that they were required to do. They also told her that CPS would then take custody, and vaccinate him!!!

That's your criminal cartel's modus operandi regarding their poison vaccines!!
PLEASE stop reading the conspiracy theorists and read some real studies.

First there is NO link between autism and vaccines, Jenny McCarthy to the contrary (and her son was misdiagnosed, btw, he does not and never did have autism - he had a seizure disorder). You can read the full studies from links at the website. The too many, too soon hypothesis is also answered in one of the links.

Autism and Vaccines | Research, Funding, Support | Autism Science Foundation

Quote:
A decade ago most agreed that we need to study vaccines in relation to autism. We had to reconcile the fact that the number of vaccines children were receiving was increasing, and at the same time, the number of children who were being diagnosed with autism also was on the rise. But fortunately this was a question that could be studied – and answered – by science. We looked at children who received vaccines and those who didn’t, or who received them on a different, slower schedule. There was no difference in their neurological outcomes. We’ve done multiple studies looking at the measles, mumps and rubella vaccination in relation to autism. We’ve looked at thimerosal, a mercury-based preservative, and its relation to autism. The studies are very clear; there is no relationship in the data between vaccines and autism.
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Currently I physically reside on the 3rd planet from the sun
2,220 posts, read 1,878,203 times
Reputation: 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
No, they do NOT rank last.

I posted a link before, but our top students actually outrank Japan and China in math and science. And they are second to only one country in the reading tests.

The United States has one of the biggest gaps between high- and low-performing students in an industrialized nation.

How do United States students compare to students in other countries?
I see your link and raise you 5.
(there are more)

Staying Competitive | National Math and Science Initiative
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/11/ed...ests-show.html
In ranking, U.S. students trail global leaders - USATODAY.com

U.S. Students Lag in Math and Science: DNews Nugget : Discovery News
Quote:
The average scores of American students wasn't that much lower than average scores of students in the leading countries, but the top performers from other countries far outperformed U.S. students.
The Broad Foundation - Education
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:27 PM
 
9,855 posts, read 15,207,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crankywithakeyboard View Post
DAMN! Who's got my extra $25,000? Is it hiding under the couch of something?????
The average American worker:
52 weeks x 5 Days/week = 260 Days
4 weeks vacation/year = -16 Days
10 holidays/year= -10
3 sick days/year= -3
3 personal days/year= -3
Total days worked 228 Days/ year


The average teacher:
School year = 180 days
5 personal days/year= -5
7 Sick days/year- -7
Total days worked 168 Days/ year

The average worker works 60 days per year more than the average teacher. If you as a teacher make $50,000 per year, that is $297/day. If you work another job for those 74 days and actually work as much as the typical american, your net salary would be very close to $75,000 per year.
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:28 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,921,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
That's why teachers have "free" periods. I know for a fact that teachers DO NOT teach the entire school day. If they can't get their work done during work hours, that's their problem. Everyone else in the private sector faces those same challenges and many people bring work home with them, as well.
Free periods?

1. Not in most elementary schools. Sometimes, an elementary school teacher has a free period when the kids are in specials like art, usually these are taken up with a meeting of some kind though sometimes they can be used for planning. Some in middle schools or high schools, but... those are often used to call parents about discipline problems *or* are taken away so that another class has to be covered because there was no sub so the free periods of each teacher in the subject has to cover that class.

2. I have worked in both the private sector and as a teacher. Teachers have much MORE work than those in corporate jobs *and* when I worked in tech, I was compensated with extra time off if I worked overtime at the office or at the customer location during a crunch time.

3. I have a challenge for anyone who thinks teachers have it easy. PLEASE put your money where your mouth is and come teach. Especially come and teach in a low income urban or rural school in a place like Chicago or NYC or Mississippi or ... Well, you get the idea. You would not last a week.
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