Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I never relied on the schools to educated my kids. I started reading to them when they were tiny babies. Their eyes looked at the pictures and words and heard my voice and before long they made the cognitive leap that there was a connection. My oldest read a book to his pre-school class. Its not every parent who can sacrifice time and income to give what is so vital to a child before the age of five. One of the problems is many times the parents are a result of the same system their child is failing in. They should hope and expect that every child to comes from a home where sacrifices are made to benefit a child's development, But they should know better than to rely on it.
If you send your child to 1st grade without basic reading skills, you've failed your child.
If you send your child to school hungry, you've failed your child.
If you send your child to school without the basic tools, (pencils, copy book, erasers, etc.), you've failed your child.
If you send your child to school without having checked their homework, you've failed your child.
If you send your child to school dirty, you've failed your child.
If you send your child to school without a proper nights sleep, you've failed your child.
NO child should ever receive a report card until the 6th grade.....up to that point, the report card should be on the parents. And not based on test grades....it should be based on the things which I mentioned above.
Teachers are under extreme pressure and when they have to take time from other students in order to take care of your irresponsibility, they become less effective.
True -- but parents aren't paid $75,000 a year with lavish job benefits like teachers are.
If parents aren't up to the job of raising children to be productive adults, they should forego the idea of breeding.
Better yet, they should forego the act of breeding.
It's a job, and it's the parent's job - it is their responsibility to raise their child.
Don't want to do the work, don't have the kids.
Why should the rest of society suffer because you don't want to do your job?
very true. after all, if you need a village to help raise your child, then you should have never had the child in the 1st place.
All of the above is because the charter schools can choose the best performing students from the pool of applicants....which generally have the more involved parents.
It depends on the charter school and area in this regard. At my son's school, it is a public charter, they cannot pick and chose who to enroll. We have a lottery of those interested and whoever gets chosen gets in.
That said, i do agree with a poster above about "counseling out." I know kids with behavioral problems have been sent out of my son's school. I honestly think we need to bring back remedial schools. When I was a kid, we had what we called "the bad kid school" and those kids who were disruptive, violent, or just a poor behaving student were expelled from regular school and sent there or they had to be home or private schooled by parents.
We need to bring this back as I do feel that misbehaving students should be sent out of the school entirely. If parents knew they would have to have their kid with them all day, especially those people who don't like their kids (I know a lot of people who don't seem to like their own kids, treat them bad, tell me I am "lucky" when I go out of town on business because I will get a break from my own children and they look at me crazy when I tell them I'd rather be at home because I like spending time with my kids, they are great people) they would do more to make their kid behave appropriately. I know they do at my son's school as they are given plenty of warnings before they are counseled out of the school. There are no consequences now in traditional schools IMO, not for teachers and especially not for students and their families.
I believe I watched the documentary that ovcatto mentioned, where they started to track students based on certain demographics that indicated which students would drop out and they used that info to form plans to make sure those students got the help they needed. One of the girls they followed got accepted into an exclusive private high school on a full scholarship after her counselors and teachers got involved with her in 5th or 6th grade based on the statistics they found from their tracking. She was homeless and was going down the wrong path. Her twin brother didn't go to the school she went to and was not targeted like she was and he ended up getting in trouble and not doing anything positive academically. There is no reason why all schools cannot do what was done for that girl and focus on those students who may have poor parents (not poor monetarily but poor in nuturing, support, and parenting skills in general) and give them extra resources. We spend a lot of money per pupil in major cities especially. I know here in Atlanta it is just a little under $15K per student. There is no reason why there cannot be more time given to those students who can be helped. My own mom wasn't that involved in my schooling, she worked too much at low paying jobs, usually 2nd shift so she wasn't home after school with me. For 5-6 years of my tween/teen years, she worked a swing shift 1 week first, 2nd week 3rd, 3rd week 2nd shift. It was very erratic. But I was smart and a lot of teachers took an interest in me and made sure that I didn't lack for anything at school. One even offered to buy me a pair of glasses when I was in high school when mine broke and my mom had to save for a month to buy me some new ones. So I think most teachers are good teachers but we need to use the data we have at hand to help the ones that need help. Those that don't respond should be moved to a remedial school and hope they can absorb some knowledge there. I'd rather the remedial schools be a military-esque school to get them in line as I believe most poor kids will improve with some involvement from a school and if help is offered to them, they will be smart enough to see someone is caring about them and accept the help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thriftylefty
I never relied on the schools to educated my kids. I started reading to them when they were tiny babies. Their eyes looked at the pictures and words and heard my voice and before long they made the cognitive leap that there was a connection. My oldest read a book to his pre-school class. Its not every parent who can sacrifice time and income to give what is so vital to a child before the age of five. One of the problems is many times the parents are a result of the same system their child is failing in. They should hope and expect that every child to comes from a home where sacrifices are made to benefit a child's development, But they should know better than to rely on it.
I agree with the above, but especially the bold. They should know better and they should make a plan to teach those who are not so fortunate to have involved parents.
If you send your child to 1st grade without basic reading skills, you've failed your child.
If you send your child to school hungry, you've failed your child.
If you send your child to school without the basic tools, (pencils, copy book, erasers, etc.), you've failed your child.
If you send your child to school without having checked their homework, you've failed your child.
If you send your child to school dirty, you've failed your child.
If you send your child to school without a proper nights sleep, you've failed your child.
NO child should ever receive a report card until the 6th grade.....up to that point, the report card should be on the parents. And not based on test grades....it should be based on the things which I mentioned above.
Teachers are under extreme pressure and when they have to take time from other students in order to take care of your irresponsibility, they become less effective.
I completely agreed. NOW, Refund my tax that suppose to use to educate my children.
If you send your child to 1st grade without basic reading skills, you've failed your child. I don't agree here. Studies have shown that once children reach 3rd-4th grade even if they come to school without much prep work at home that they will catch up in that timeframe. Also do want to agree with other posters since I have young children, that kindergarten is the "new first grade" and in kindergarten they do teach children to read, so you should probably change the first grade portion to kindergarten.
As a recently retired teacher I thought I'd chime in. Kindergarten is the new 1st grade and we would all be better off if it wasn't. Mandatory full-day kindergarten is a response to the increase in two working parent and single parent households. Developmentally, some kids are just too young for obtaining these skills. Has anyone noticed that there has been a rise in the number of kids with learning disabilities with the new academic thrust of kindergarten. It is kind of like when people try to potty train their kids too young.
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007
If you send your child to school hungry, you've failed your child. Disagree here as well. I have a kid who is 10. We have food and he has a morning routine but if he doesn't get his butt downstairs on time to eat, he will go to school hungry and he has. I did not fail him, he failed himself by taking over an hour to get dressed. I also have to get dressed and get his 3 year old sister dressed and honestly, he is old enough to get himself something to eat. I think this portion, in regards to older kids is an example of how we are not expecting much of our kids in general. My older brother and I got ourselves breakfast and walked to school by ourselves when we were 6(me) and 7(him). We woke ourselves up, washed up, got dressed, ate, and walked to school. Our mom worked and that was what she told us to do, she taught us how to take care of ourselves. If my son wants to be hungry because he wants to take an hour to wash his face, then he deserves to be hungry IMO.
Big difference between a kid who misses breakfast because he is lollygagging and a kid who misses breakfast and whose dinner is hit-or-miss, and it isn't even healthy when they do get it. Bet your son can get a snack if he is hungry when he gets home from school.
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007
If you send your child to school without the basic tools, (pencils, copy book, erasers, etc.), you've failed your child. Now-a-days, you send a huge trough of stuff to school because it is expected not everyone will have these things. That is why "school supply" list are hundreds of dollars. Teachers hoarde this stuff, even at my son's school, they always have them so really there is not need to make sure they always have them, also it is up to the child to keep up with his/her things. I expected my son in kindergarten to get his stuff together and make sure he had his stuff. More often than not he did. Of whom much is expected, much is achieved IMO.
The last year I taught I spent over $750 out of my own pocket. You are right not everybody will have these things and they are needed to in order to learn. If you don't buy pencils, I have to. If you don't buy paper, I have to. If you don't buy Kleenexes, I have to. Of course I hoard the stuff, and then I purchase it when my hoard runs out. Despite what the Chicago teachers were making, most teachers are not paid well enough to pay for your child's supplies. It sounds all good and fine to say let the kid suffer the consequences for not having their supplies and it works if the parents do something about it, but most parents blow it off or question why it is even an issue when you can just hand them one from your "hoard". From an educational standpoint it is about learning responsibility, on a personal level it is about my pocketbook.
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007
If you send your child to school without having checked their homework, you've failed your child. My son is in 5th grade. I no longer check his homework. Studies have shown that for children who are not behind academically, that homework is not beneficial for them. My son is above average in every subject. I also expect him to do his own homework and check his own work. My mom never checked my homework - I didn't have as much of course because back then schools didn't try to prove how "good" they were by giving 9 year olds 2 hours worth of homework everyday - they taught during the school day instead of giving me useless busy work for home. I was in the TAG (talented and gifted) program throughout elementary/jr. high and an Honors/AP path in high school and very rarely had homework, nothing compared to what my son has had to deal with since first grade. And it is not necessary for me to check his homework as a 5th grader. I expect him to take responsibility for his school work and academics and so far he has responded to this expectation as well.
The ideal amount of homework, excluding pleasure reading, is 10 minutes per grade for all subjects combined. Teachers that assign too much homework are being counterproductive. I applaud your stance on homework for your own child and would be thrilled if all parents instilled in their child self responsibility. I do hope though, that if he asks you for help that you render it - I suspect you do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007
If you send your child to school dirty, you've failed your child. My son is responsible for his own cleanliness as well. He washes his own clothes, irons them too. He also showers himself regularly and brushes his teeth and combs his own hair. His cleanliness is up to him. At his age, if he is stinky, the other kids will tease him so I don't really pay attention to him in that respect. I do make sure he washes his clothes every Saturday morning, but that is a part of his regular chores and I make sure he does all his chores, so I know his clothes are clean. I also know his teeth are clean since I take him to the dentist and he usually doesn't have any issues.
You take him to a dentist, you'd be surprised how many parents don't. You make sure his clothes are clean, regardless of who does them, there are kids who wear clothes that may have been washed once or twice in a month - may. Bet if he got to stinking too bad you'd do something about it. Bet you bathe or shower yourself on a regular basis, there are parents that don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007
If you send your child to school without a proper nights sleep, you've failed your child. My kids both go to bed at 8:30. Sometimes they want to stay up and play though. My daughter especially likes to "read" (she is 3 so it is cute her reading) to her teddy bears and doll babies after I put her in the bed. My son also likes to read at night. I can't force them to sleep without medicating them. Sometimes, my daughter especially will stay up very late playing in her room and won't have a good day the next day. She is discplined for her misbehavior and reminded that if she goes to sleep she won't have so many problems.
Your child hasn't been allowed to stay up to 11:30 watching God knows what on the TV. Your kids aren't allowed to stay up until 2 am playing video games. Your kids are sent to bed. There is a difference. I also doubt your kids are kept up all night by you fighting with your significant other or because you are having your twice weekly midweek party. It is different than a kid who reads to their dolls or themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007
Teachers are under extreme pressure and when they have to take time from other students in order to take care of your irresponsibility, they become less effective. Teachers have always been under pressure. They should not have gotten into teaching if they wanted an easy/cush job. I don't think many teachers expect their job to be easy and stress free.
I never expected my job to be easy or stress free. Ever. But I will tell you that over the years it has gotten much, much more stressful. Parents are less likely to take responsibility for their child these days, and they are even less likely to make their child take responsibility for themselves. There is a lot less respect for the teaching profession today than when I first started. And, yes, we are now expected to teach things that parents should have taught their kids and take responsibility for what should be a parent's job. Just because you are a responsible parent, and from what you have said you appear to be, does not mean other people are. It is very hard to teach a hungry, tired child who has no school supplies and whose parents think school is a waste of time and is no more than a glorified babysitter.
True -- but parents aren't paid $75,000 a year with lavish job benefits like teachers are.
Hold both accountable.
Who in the *beep* is getting $75,000 a year as a teacher? The average salary in my state is just under $45,000 - and we had to have Master's degrees within five years. Starting salaries are around $34,000. It's better than McDonald's but....
Who in the *beep* is getting $75,000 a year as a teacher?
Chicago Public School District teachers. And they went on strike for more. The deal to end the strike: an average 17.6% pay raise over four years PLUS increased benefits.
Chicago teachers had already earned an average of about $76,000 annually, according to CPS, for 185 days of work.
Most people who work full-time work 240 days [5 x 50 (two weeks vacation) - 10 (holidays) = 240].
No, I'm just providing facts ... it's the problem that is "dramatic". And others, including professionals in the area of sleep and psychiatry also agree with those facts. This is from the American Psychiatric Association regarding teenagers, sleep and high school schedules:
In adults, such meager sleep allowances are known to affect day-to-day functioning in myriad ways. In adolescents, who are biologically driven to sleep longer and later than adults do, the effects of insufficient sleep are likely to be even more dramatic--so much so that some sleep experts contend that the nation's early high-school start times, increasingly common, are tantamount to abuse.
"Almost all teen-agers, as they reach puberty, become walking zombies because they are getting far too little sleep," comments Cornell University psychologist James B. Maas, PhD, one of the nation's leading sleep experts.
Is it the school's fault or the parent/child combo's fault? I ensure my daughter gets 10-12 hours of sleep per night, she's used to that schedule, and she (as a six year old) wakes up energized on her own and gets herself dressed before even my husband or myself wakes up. If it wasn't for the milk being above her reach and in glass bottles, she'd probably try fixing her own breakfast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
This is EXACTLY what I was referring to ... these children are treated like adults, just as you compare their schedule to your adult schedule, dictated by your professional job. Kids ARE NOT ADULTS,
Why shouldn't kids be treated more and more like adults as they get older? Coddling them until they're 18 or 25 isn't going to produce well-balanced adults. It'll produce adults with the mindsets of children.
I'm already seeing this in my generation - people in their mid 20's incapable of holding down a steady job at anyplace more than retail or fast food because they lack skillsets or drive. They don't want to wake up early to be at work about 830 or 9 in the morning. They'd rather stay up all night, sleep in until noon, then work their part-time jobs, rinse and repeat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
and they require much more sleep than adults. Most professionals say that children require 10-12 hours of sleep, with some a little more, and some a little less .... but according to studies, the vast majority of kids are not getting nearly that amount. And this is happening for a number of reasons, not limited to, but include the parents extended schedules of work, which generally dictate the kids schedules too
And who's job is it to ensure that the kids are sleeping? The parent/child combo.
They know: "You have to be awake by a certain hour, you should go to sleep by a certain hour."
It's not the school's faults for "being so dang early in the morning". In my 12 years of going to school, there was only one change to the hours of operation for schools - a 30 minute push back for middle school to give buses more time to deal with morning rush-hour traffic. Now that my daughter is in school, the hours are still the exact same as when I left.
So what's the difference? Why aren't kids able to handle it nowadays? Easy: They're being coddled by crap parents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
This is no longer the world of June and Ward Cleaver, in case you haven't noticed, and Beaver and the family are not gathered around the dinner table at 5:15 pm sharp, surrounded by a wholesome home cooked meal, nor has June already spent the obligatory hour with Beaver on his homework before dinner. Most parents today are working, and still at work, or in rush hour traffic at 6:00 pm or later ... and just having dinner at 7:30 if they are lucky. Following the OP's "mandates" for proper parenting would necessarily also have to incorporate an hour of homework review, dinner and bath, and MAYBE off to bed by 9:30 pm or even 10:00 pm, if the kid and parent actually wants a little non-work interaction ... you know, just time to be a kid and a parent.
Funny. Growing up, I only had one parent, so I never experienced this "June and Ward Cleaver" thing you speak of. After school, until I was old enough to be home alone, I went to an after-school center where I did my homework and played with other kids. When my dad picked myself and my sister up, he'd cook dinner and quickly check over homework. We'd eat dinner around 1830 to 1900 or so. We sat and ate, talked about our days, then off to do our own things (or as a family) until bedtime at 9.
When I was old enough, it was "get home, play on the internet". Ah, the years of Neopets, watching anime, playing video games... without a care in the world. Now, my dad never did the homework review once I got to that age, because it was a "I trust you to do it and if you don't, you'll grades will suffer and you'll be kicked out the magnet program". I did most of my homework. I also chose my own bedtime - to the tune of "If you're too tired, then you'll be the one to suffer." I generally went to bed about 11 or midnight of my own accord.
Noooooow, as for my daughter, my husband is a stay-at-home dad, so she does get this "June and Ward Cleaver" treatment. A well-balanced dinner (made at home by my chef of a husband) is served between 1715-1730. Homework is done by that time, same as chores. After dinner, family time until bed at 830. Then again, we chose to set up like this, sacrificing the extra income to give our daughter the parental attention she deserves.
"Seven-year-olds may find it difficult to get to bed at a reasonable hour because children this age may have more challenging homework and be involved in after-school activities such as team sports -- things that can cut into the amount of free time kids have between the end of school and bedtime. Add to that TV time, socializing with friends, and wanting to spend time with family, and you have a lot of things packed into a few hours."
Translation: Things may be harder than you remember at that age, but it's not friggin' rocket science. Here's a few tips on how to be a proper parent.
Okay. And, for the most part, if parents are actually parenting, they can make it work. Instill the values from a young age and the kids will grow into the routine and understand why they need to sleep. My 6-year old even understands the basic concept of "If I want to be ready for the day, I need to sleep" and thus doesn't fight it (too much) when we say things like "You look really tired, why don't you get some extra sleep tonight".
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
Don't even tell me what they do in Japan ..... soon enough, their kids will be freaking glowing in the dark, due to Fukushima, for Christ sake. They're eating radioactive food, and attending schools in areas that should be evacuated, and off limits to humans.
Excellent hyperbole.
Yeeeeep. Let's ignore the years upon years upon decades of data showing the superiority of Japanese schools over American schools all because of an incident that happened last year.
Fact is that Japan's version of our grade schools produce better results educationally and in physical fitness. And, as you probably know, even in America, Asians generally test highest amongst student breakdowns. Why? Because of a parenting style that emphasizes heavy focus on studies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
Ah yes ... that explains everything ... "Drop your $%^ and grab your socks" .... dump a bucket of ice water on the little lazy sleepy eyed schleps, and that'll teach em' not to spring out of bed when the bugle trumpets. Ah shut up, quit the moaning ... grow a pair ... life is hard ... quit your bellyaching and get your butt on that bus? And the beatings will continue until grades and morale improves.
Yep. Pretty much. A bit of a huge hyperbole, but the the basis is the same: Do your job as a parent and make sure your kids are ready for school.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
"Liberal compassion" is only eclipsed by "liberal logic". And now we have uncovered the mystery of why our schools are producing illiterate children ..... a shortage of freaking frozen marbles.
Not sure why you're making it a liberal/conservative thing here. Last I checked, parenting strategies are not limited by political ideologies.
Though, I would say that our schools are producing illiterate children because of coddling helicopter parents who kvetch about the atrocity of "having to wake up early" and "having to do homework" and the oh-so-dreaded "treating kids increasingly like adults as they grow up"... rather than parents who go out of their way to make sure their kid is ready for school, doing their schoolwork, giving them increased responsibilities as they get older, etc.
Needless to say, the ideology you present in your attitude towards schooling? Instill that in a young child from the get-go and you get a kid who is late to class, does nothing to participate, doesn't do homework, and generally doesn't learn anything. AKA, the growing problem of illiterate tards who treat anything dealing with school as The Plague.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Think4Yourself
This is very true. So many parents are just worthless and don't give a crap about their kids then want to blame teachers and schools when their kids turn out to be illiterate tards.
The growing amount of parents who just don't care mixed with the over-coddling helicopter parents are becoming more and more of a problem.
Have you heard about the growing trend of mid-20's college graduates who have their mommies and daddies making their resumes, submitting them to places, calling potential bosses, and even calling bosses who don't hire their babies? Heck, there's even parents that go to their child's interviews and try to negotiate salaries! These were the same parents who whined and complained about how early the school day started or just how terrible homework was. These were the parents who called teachers and schools when their precious angel didn't get an A to find out why the teacher was such a jerk.
OMG! I can't believe that liberals are actually getting the fact that the welfare-dependent breeding at a rate of 3 times everyone else is a PROBLEM.
As a leftie, I could get on board with this proposal:
Quote:
Pass a law reforming welfare benefits for new families so that only one child may qualify for benefits (excepting ones already alive) and build 2 bedroom public housing units only about 600-700 sq. ft. in size. If they have a second child after the deadline, that child will not be able to increase benefits for the family, so it will be that family's entire responsibility for that child, not the welfare office's. That's common sense reform without throwing the baby out with the bathwater. that way, the benefits that people might need one day are still there, but it's not encouraging more breeding. It will have an effect, as there should be absolutely no reason why more than 1 kid should be claimed for benefits. Of course, this just addresses the so-called chronically poor, not the acute poor like the person who was laid off and can't get another comparable job.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
