Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
(1) We don't know that the guns were stolen. His mother purchased them legally. We'll probably never know what happened in that house before he left for the school, other than he killed his mother.
(2) I'd like for you (and every other pro-gun person) to explain exactly how you plan to screen for mental health issues in every person who could conceivably commit a crime like this. While you're squabbling amongst yourselves figuring out how to do that and how to pay for it, I can guarantee you that there will be more massacres.
The time for addressing mental health has passed. It is being used as a distraction from the issue of guns. Either we get serious and start curbing guns, or we simply wait for the next tragedy.
He didn't own the guns. That leaves two choices, yes. He either illegally stole the guns or he was given the guns illegally. Either way, an illegal action preceded this shooting.
As to mental health, a great start would be if we stopped thinking that violent mentally ill people are going to just comply and take their meds. In most of these cases, there has been documented mental health issues that have alarmed parents, schools, etc. However, due to "reforms" in mental health, it is near impossible to institutionalize someone until they commit a crime. My point is that these so called reforms have done more to harm society than help and should be reversed. You can't guarantee 100% that nothing will happen in the future but think back on these mass shootings. It would have prevented most of them.
If classifying assault weapons AKA semi autos like NFA guns wont help, then why are there no or very very few crimes committed by the thousands of legal machine guns in private hands?
He didn't own the guns. That leaves two choices, yes. He either illegally stole the guns or he was given the guns illegally. Either way, an illegal action preceded this shooting.
As to mental health, a great start would be if we stopped thinking that violent mentally ill people are going to just comply and take their meads. In most of these cases, there has been documented mental health issues that have alarmed parents, schools, etc. However, due to "reforms" in mental health, it is near impossible to institutionalize someone until they commit a crime. My point is that these so called reforms have done more to harm society than help and should be reversed. You can't guarantee 100% that nothing will happen in the future but think back on these mass shootings. It would have prevented most of them.
BS BS BS, fist off we just don't know right now and you are assuming things out of thin are or pulling them straight out of your you know. Under most state law, its not illegal to buy a gun and give it as a present, semi or otherwise. It will come out if his mother bought the guns and gave them to him as a present or they were just laying around the house and he used them, also not illegal. In many states I can lend a gun to others and its not illegal. you don't seem to grasp the law.
He didn't own the guns. That leaves two choices, yes. He either illegally stole the guns or he was given the guns illegally. Either way, an illegal action preceded this shooting
What do you make of the fact that his deranged mother purchased all that artillery and then died as a direct result of it? It wasn't an economic collapse that killed her. It was the guns she bought for her own protection that were used against her. Now, doesn't that sound familiar?
Quote:
As to mental health, a great start would be if we stopped thinking that violent mentally ill people are going to just comply and take their meds. In most of these cases, there has been documented mental health issues that have alarmed parents, schools, etc. However, due to "reforms" in mental health, it is near impossible to institutionalize someone until they commit a crime. My point is that these so called reforms have done more to harm society than help and should be reversed. You can't guarantee 100% that nothing will happen in the future but think back on these mass shootings. It would have prevented most of them.
I have no idea what "reforms" you're talking about, unless it involves cuts to the healthcare system.
And how would it have prevented them unless you lock up (for life) every person who fails a screening! Who draws the line (and what line) that separates the mentally ill from incarceration and freedom? You just said we can't count on them to take medication, so presumably we can't count on them to attend psychotherapy.
The only law on lending a gun in many states is to give one or loan one to someone who you personally know to be a felon or not able to get one on their own. If a wife buys her husband a rifle for his birthday, unless she is buying it because he can not on his own, which is a straw man sale, than you are free to buy it and give it as a gift in most states. This guys mother could have bought the guns as a gift for the son. We don't know, but stricter laws on sales and ownership may have stopped this from happening, it may not have, but a bit more regulation on guns is not going to take guns out of the hands of law abiding people and if it has a chance to stop what happened its worth the bit of extra trouble. I bet there is not one parent that would not take a 1 in 1 million chance that more restriction would have stopped this, and not worry about if some gun buyer had to wait an extra month to get that AR in the first place. When does your or my right conflict with the life of another. We are not even talking about baning them outright, just some regulation to make it harder to just pick one up.
BS BS BS, fist off we just don't know right now and you are assuming things out of thin are or pulling them straight out of your you know. Under most state law, its not illegal to buy a gun and give it as a present, semi or otherwise. It will come out if his mother bought the guns and gave them to him as a present or they were just laying around the house and he used them, also not illegal. In many states I can lend a gun to others and its not illegal. you don't seem to grasp the law.
In CT, it was illegal. Have to be 21 to possess a handgun. He had two that day. Seems I grasp the law just fine.
What do you make of the fact that his deranged mother purchased all that artillery and then died as a direct result of it? It wasn't an economic collapse that killed her. It was the guns she bought for her own protection that were used against her. Now, doesn't that sound familiar?
I have no idea what "reforms" you're talking about, unless it involves cuts to the healthcare system.
And how would it have prevented them unless you lock up (for life) every person who fails a screening! Who draws the line (and what line) that separates the mentally ill from incarceration and freedom? You just said we can't count on them to take medication, so presumably we can't count on them to attend psychotherapy.
This debate is a false one. The problem is guns.
No, not a false debate. Look, do some research on how mentally ill that have been deemed violent are treated in this country. Unless that person has committed a crime, institutionalization is near impossible. Why are we not talking about that???
As to this mother, my personal opinion is that she was an irresponsible gun owner having guns in the house with a mentally ill child.
I am trying to make suggestions that would actually make a difference in preventing these types of mass shootings that we often find out were carried out by seriously mentally ill persons. That should be the first area we look at vice the gun issue.
My suggestion is to outlaw all firearms that can kill someone (under normal circumstances, freak accidents apart). The constitution doesn't say guns have to be able to kill, right? Once only tasers and the like (and maybe very small, non-lethal caliber guns, no expert here) are legal, there should be a period when anyone can swap their conventional guns for those that can only incapacitate. After the swap period there should be hefty fines, though.
This way both sides could be happy and feel safe if they think they need guns to protect themselves and their families.
As to this mother, my personal opinion is that she was an irresponsible gun owner having guns in the house with a mentally ill child.
This is a complete and total crock. An "irresponsible gun owner." So how do we know who those people are? Is that another class of mentally ill people we need to keep track of? What happens if someone turns "irresponsible" after buying a gun? Do you acknowledge that there should be a rigorous mental health screening *BEFORE* you are allowed to buy a gun? If not, WHY NOT?
If you can't see where this discussion is going, I don't know how to help you. The problem is GUNS and the restriction of their sale. That is the only practical way to prevent what happened on Friday from happening again.
This pie-in-the-sky idea of mental health is nothing but a tool used to muddle the argument. Even anti-gun people are attacking the mental health angle, unwilling or unable to notice that it distracts from the gun problem.
This is a complete and total crock. An "irresponsible gun owner." So how do we know who those people are? Is that another class of mentally ill people we need to keep track of? What happens if someone turns "irresponsible" after buying a gun? Do you acknowledge that there should be a rigorous mental health screening *BEFORE* you are allowed to buy a gun? If not, WHY NOT?
If you can't see where this discussion is going, I don't know how to help you. The problem is GUNS and the restriction of their sale. That is the only practical way to prevent what happened on Friday from happening again.
This pie-in-the-sky idea of mental health is nothing but a tool used to muddle the argument. Even anti-gun people are attacking the mental health angle, unwilling or unable to notice that it distracts from the gun problem.
If the mother were still alive, she likely would have faced criminal prosecution. I am not suggesting that all persons be screened for mental health. However, as has been seen time and again, mass shooters have ALREADY been identified as mentally ill and violent at that. If you do not support institutionalization, which I think is the best for these types of people, then at the very least they should be flagged as mentally ill and not eligible for gun ownership. Much like people with seizures get reported to the DMV so they can't drive. Why? They have been deemed medically unsafe to drive. Why can't we do the same for the mentally ill?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Once only tasers and the like (and maybe very small, non-lethal caliber guns, no expert here) are legal, there should be a period when anyone can swap their conventional guns for those that can only incapacitate. After the swap period there should be hefty fines, though.
