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Are you kidding? Do you know how many "hot" guns are on the street?
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Those guns are infinitely less lethal at the same rates the one Mom owned were, so the death count would have been just a few, as cops were there in under 10 minutes.
As the media has constantly made a point of saying, his mother LEGALY purchased and owned those firearms, so are you suggesting we prevent legaly eligible citizens from owning firearms? For the third time, nothing short of that will completely prevent these things from happening.
She should not have been allowed to have a mentally ill son and powerful guns concurrently. I'd have let her choose either one.
The problem is you can't have a serious discussion with the mentally insane. gun nutsare crazy. They have crazy views about the world. They live in a constant state of fear. They have these fantasies that they are going to fight the government, or fight marauding bands of urban criminals who are they are terrified will riot.
Many are conspiracy theorists, and racists who are ruled by fear.
Here is my solution, people can have guns but high powered guns should no longer be sold. For the high powered guns already out there, the owners should be offered a lot of money to voluntarily give them up.
The ones that don't want to give up their high powered guns, those guns should be grand fathered in with the express understanding that if one of those guns is used in a crime the owner is going to jail and will face stiff financial penalties.
Every gun produced should be tracked. Gun manufacturers should be held personally accountable for every gun they make.
Every gun sold by sellers should be tracked and those sellers should be held personally accountable for every gun they sell
Every gun owner should have to take training classes, pay higher taxes, it should be made known the more guns you own the more training the more the police will look over your weapons and the higher taxes and fees.
But the biggest change is to focus on stigmatizing owning high powered guns as the lunatic fringe.
The other is to stigmatize owning multiple guns as the lunatic fringe.
With these steps in place eventually fewer and fewer people will buy guns and over a long period of time this problem will lessen.
Define gun nut, numb nuts. I have 11 (guns not nuts) I ask because I want to know if you are calling me crazy so I can justifiably unleash my scathing sarcasm on your crippled intellect.
Those guns are infinitely less lethal at the same rates the one Mom owned were, so the death count would have been just a few, as cops were there in under 10 minutes.
Infinitely less lethal? And how exactly did you come across that conclusion?
Any semi auto with a few extra mags can kill a lot of people in 10 minutes, especially children in a classroom. Hell, a revolver with a couple speed loaders could do the job, not nearly as effectively, but we're still talking a good amount of damage in a situation like that.
This kid was a psycho. Whether it takes him a day or a year to collect his arsenal is irrelevant. People like that don't give up after a week. Your entire argument is based on the assumption that he would have gone ahead with a butter knife if that's all he could have gotten that same day.
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Originally Posted by bobtn
Many, no doubt, would not have been fatally shot.
And you've skipped one thing. My point was that he could have picked up one gun, and used it to steal other guns from someone else (apparently this is what he did only that person was his mother, I don't think she is the only person who owns guns).
And you're ignoring my compromise on mag capacity. If you have a counter solution, present it.
[quote=SamBarrow;27382870]Infinitely less lethal? And how exactly did you come across that conclusion?
Any semi auto with a few extra mags can kill a lot of people in 10 minutes, especially children in a classroom. Hell, a revolver with a couple speed loaders could do the job, not nearly as effectively, but we're still talking a good amount of damage in a situation like that.quote]
Since it has been reported hundreds of rounds were fired and 26 died, I'd prefer the odds Friday had only 5 or 10% that many rounds been fired.
As you said comparing the two "Not nearly as effectively" likely decreases the death toll.
The problem is you can't have a serious discussion with the mentally insane. gun nuts are crazy.
What exactly is your definition of a gun nut? Anyone who owns a gun?
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Many are conspiracy theorists, and racists who are ruled by fear.
So are many who don't own a single gun, your point?
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Here is my solution, people can have guns but high powered guns should no longer be sold.
What exactly is your definition of a "high powered gun"?
Quote:
For the high powered guns already out there, the owners should be offered a lot of money to voluntarily give them up.
Who do you propose pays for that?
Quote:
Every gun produced should be tracked. Gun manufacturers should be held personally accountable for every gun they make.
Heres where you lose me. Do you also think that GM should be held accountable for every drunk that kills a familyon the road because they got behind the wheel of one of their cars? If I go and stab someone in the face withn a fork, do you think the manufacturer should be held accountable? And don't even try and say it's different because it isn't. The only difference is that we are talking about guns.
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Every gun sold by sellers should be tracked and those sellers should be held personally accountable for every gun they sell
This is just ridiculaousness and frightening at the same time, this way way of thinking.
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Every gun owner should have to take training classes, pay higher taxes, it should be made known the more guns you own the more training the more the police will look over your weapons and the higher taxes and fees.
So, unconstitutionaly and unfairly tax a specific group of people? Sounds like America at it's finest.
Quote:
But the biggest change is to focus on stigmatizing owning high powered guns as the lunatic fringe.
Yes, single out another group of people and create more division, sounds like a plan.
It's quite obvious that you know very little about guns or the people who own them. I'm sorry you have such short sighted and ignorant opinions about people you don't even know.
Not just that whippersnapper, look at their replies to topics like arming a teacher. They claim the teacher will snap and shoot a student. They clearly mistrust people and see nothing but the negative in people.
This is priceless, coming from the gang that insists it has to have its vast arsenal of assault weapons because the duly elected government by, for and of their friends and neighbors might just snap at any moment and name a dictator.
Since it has been reported hundreds of rounds were fired and 26 died, I'd prefer the odds Friday had only 5 or 10% that many rounds been fired.
As you said comparing the two "Not nearly as effectively" likely decreases the death toll.
Great argument. Too bad it completely ignores the second part of the first section of my post, along with the second section in its entirety, which you have conveniently forgotten to quote.
Last night I bet I opened at least 30 of the hundred or so new threads discussing gun control on this board. Not in even one of these did I find a hint of meaningful conversation that displayed any reason or logic from the anti gun people. Instead they are inundated with sheer ignorance and blind stupidity with zero intellect and very little intelligence being displayed. Just a few examples of the ignorance, and I'm para-phrasing:
And the winner, by a landslide.....
How exactly do you expect to accomplish anything with this type of mentality? Do you not agree with president Obama that to create "meaningful action" we must "come together"? all this rhetoric is doing nothing but driving us further apart. Being the NRA member and avid believer in the second amendment that I am, I'm not a real big fan of any kind of new regulations on firearms, however, I DO believe there is a middle ground and room for compromise on both sides of the issue. Things like a national firearms registry, NICS check on all sales public and private, mental health status showing up on the NICS check, mandatory gun safes, regulating high capacity magazines, these are all areas that could be discussed and compromised on. It should also be noted that all of the above are considered "radical" ideas by my fellow pro gun posters on here. It should also be noted that I held these beliefs long before any of the recent mass shootings because unlike MANY of you, I am capable of keeping my emotions in check, and don't let the latest tragedy influence my political convictions.
One thing I am certain of though, is that with all the mud-slinging school yard bull**** being flung around between both sides, this "meaningful action and change" will never happen. One side starts it and the other side either clams up or throws it right back. So heres your chance, I've given you a baseline to start a real conversation, let's see if we can all be adults here and handle it.
P.S.
I would also like to point out that I have the capacity to realise that no matter how many laws or regulations that you pass, short of banning guns on a world wide level and rounding them all up and melting them down, you will never ever be able to completely prevent this type of thing from happening.
Which, feel free to entertain the notion of banning guns all you want, but with 300,000,000 privately owned guns in this country alone,good luck with that.
Here's the problem we don't have to confiscate guns. We give people an amnesty period where guns on the restricted list can be sold back to the state who knows maybe will give the owners a sweetner say 5-10% more than fair market value. I bet you a lot of husbands will return from work to find their guns gone.
After the end of the grace period if these guns are found outside of the home the owner will face felony charges. Simple and done. So you can keep your guns we don't have to come for them. They still maybe used in crime, domestic disputes etc but we would have curtaild its availability and the cultural acceptance of these weapons. They'll end up going the way of cigarettes.
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