Catholic hospital, fighting facing malpractice suit, argues that fetuses aren't people (Representatives, ethic)

[janelle144]

Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda

why does the Catholic church campaign for the banning of contraception and abortion at the same time?

this is a glaring contradiction - explain please..........

You can go to www.ewtn.com or to www.catholic.com and they have a segment on questions and answers to ask questions.

Yes they ban both contraceptives and abortion. Natural Family Planning is ok to practice. It's natural and doesn't harm the woman with artificial chemicals.

[Annie53]

Originally Posted by janelle144

You can go to www.ewtn.com or to www.catholic.com and they have a segment on questions and answers to ask questions.

Yes they ban both contraceptives and abortion. Natural Family Planning is ok to practice. It's natural and doesn't harm the woman with artificial chemicals.

Explain that to the thousands who have acquired/died from HIV/Aids due to the Catholic Church's objections to the use of condoms.

[Annie53]

Originally Posted by janelle144

Perhaps it is a way to make the court say fetuses ARE human and are entitled to protection like any other person. Would be quite a feather in the hat for the church to have a court say the fetus is human. Than other courts would have to follow and abortion would be on the line to be abolished.

Except for one little, inconvenient fact........... 7 month old fetuses already have protection under current law.

Those 7 month old twin fetuses would not have qualified for a legal abortion.

[chielgirl]

Originally Posted by spencgr

So a fetus at 8 months is a viable human being. I agree. What about a fetus at 8 months minus one day? Or minus one week? Or minus one month? Or minus two months? Where do you draw the line? Laws must be specific, so when would you define a legal "viable human being" who deserves legal rights?

When you can yank it out and it can live on it's own.
You know, the definition of viability.

And guess what, it's not your call.
Isn't that wonderful.

[Kenneth-Kaunda]

Originally Posted by janelle144

Yes they ban both contraceptives and abortion. Natural Family Planning is ok to practice. It's natural and doesn't harm the woman with artificial chemicals.

does using a condom harm the woman?

how about sex before marriage, because surely that is natural too?

people must have done this before the Bible ever came about.

something doesn't add up here

[Ceist]

Originally Posted by Harrier

Abortion stops a learning brain.

Harrier - pro-life.

Religious zealotry stops a thinking brain.

[Darkatt]

Originally Posted by Annie53

Yep.

They twist the teachings of their bible to serve their purpose.....why should this be any different?

They are masters at it.

Trying to blame it on the lawyers? That's pretty cowardly.

If the Catholic Church and their hospitals really believe fetuses are people.....they should man up, say they are sorry and take responsibility.

Ooooops.....there's that word again.....taking RESPONSIBILITY for your actions. LOL

Seems only women need to be responsible....the Catholic hierarchy.....not so much. {see: pedophilia}

Actually, The bible doesn't count the unborn child as a person.
Exodus 21 / Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre
21:23 - If 2 men are fighting and a pregnant women gets hurt, and the child is born prematurely and dies, the man is fined, if the WOMAN diesm e is punished for murder.

[Mr. Joshua]

Originally Posted by pch1013

Would any of you anti-choicers care to comment?

In malpractice case, Catholic hospital argues fetuses aren’t people | The Colorado Independent

This is shameful, they are at fault, they should just pay.

How was that? Pro-aborter.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by spencgr

So a fetus at 8 months is a viable human being. I agree. What about a fetus at 8 months minus one day? Or minus one week? Or minus one month? Or minus two months? Where do you draw the line? Laws must be specific, so when would you define a legal "viable human being" who deserves legal rights?

Originally Posted by Annie53

Except for one little, inconvenient fact........... 7 month old fetuses already have protection under current law.

Those 7 month old twin fetuses would not have qualified for a legal abortion.

Denmark draws the line at 12 weeks.

After 12 weeks you have to get permission from the Minister of Justice to have an abortion and have it paid for under their health care system.

Originally Posted by Annie53

Explain that to the thousands who have acquired/died from HIV/Aids due to the Catholic Church's objections to the use of condoms.

Explain what, that those people are stupid?

People with high moral values do not get HIV/AIDs, and in the rare cases where they do, it is the result of the immorality or criminal activity of others.

Country Usual exclusions

Austria
Individual: pre-existing conditions usually excluded (but not from group policies);
insurers cannot reject applications but may charge higher premiums and/or introduce cost-sharing arrangements for people with chronic illnesses

Belgium
Commercial: pre-existing conditions, infertility treatment, sporting injuries

Denmark Pre-existing conditions

Germany Pre-existing conditions are excluded if they were known at the time of underwriting
and were not disclosed by the insured; declared pre-existing conditions are covered but generally result in higher premiums

Greece
Pre-existing conditions

Italy
Individual: pre-existing conditions, chronic and recurrent diseases, mental illness, alcohol
and drug addiction, cosmetic surgery, war risks, injuries arising from insurrection,
natural disasters etc; also often excludes dental care not caused by accident/illness

Group: pre-existing conditions such as diabetes, drug and alcohol addiction, HIV/AIDS, severe mental health problems such as schizophrenia, voluntary termination of pregnancy and war risks
Luxembourg Mutual: open enrolment (but no cover for treatment excluded from Statutory Health
Insurance)

Commercial: pre-existing conditions

Portugal
Individual: pre-existing conditions, long-term chronic illnesses (such as diabetes, multiple sclerosis and asthma), HIV/AIDS, haemodialysis, self-inflicted injuries, psychiatric treatments, check-ups, dental care, outpatient drugs, alternative medicine and non-evidence based treatment; dental care, delivery costs and outpatient drugs are only covered by the most expensive policies

Spain
HIV/AIDS, alcoholism and drug addiction, dental care (often available for a supplementary premium), prosthesis, infertility treatment, orthopaedics etc; some insurers do not have general restrictions but may reject certain conditions; most insurers offer extra benefits for a supplementary premium eg organ transplants, second opinion, family planning, assistance during trips, treatment abroad, certain prosthesis; only one insurer offers homeopathy or spa treatment

Sweden
Emergency care, long-term care, HIV/AIDS, some other communicable diseases, diseases and injuries as a result of the use of alcohol or other intoxicating substances, pre-natal care, child birth (normal or with complications), termination of pregnancy, infertility treatment, vaccinations

UK
Pre-existing conditions, GP services, accident and emergency admission, long-term chronic illnesses such as diabetes, multiple sclerosis and asthma, drug abuse, selfinflicted injuries, outpatient drugs and dressings, HIV/AIDS, infertility, normal pregnancy and child birth, cosmetic surgery, gender reassignment, preventive treatment, kidney dialysis, mobility aids, experimental treatment and drugs, organ transplants, war risks and injuries arising from hazardous pursuits

Source: World Health Organization European Observatory on Health Systems and Policies, Spring 2004
Volume 6, Number 1

Too bad US health plan providers aren't more aggressive in their exclusions.

Originally Posted by janelle144

You don't reform the words of God.

I do.

Reforming....

Mircea

[CK78]

Originally Posted by Spikett

Any credibility you might have went out the window with this comment.

That comment just tells me you have absolutely no clue what correct Roman Catholic Theology teaches and that you are clueless.

The Vatican II Church is absolutely positively condemned by 1,960 years of traditional Catholic Theology and is absolutely, positively illegitimate beyond the shadow of a doubt.

Cardinal Giuseppi Siri was elected Roman Pontiff and Vicar of Christ in October of 1958 but was made to step aside by the occult forces that infiltrated the College of Cardinals by that date. This happened again in 1963 and 1978. This is most likely the main message in the covered up Third Secret of Fatima. Fat Roncalli was most certainly a freemason which means he was automatically excommunicated without any need for declaration by Church authority. Papa Ratzinger is the 5th straight anti-pope and enemy of Jesus Christ. He's not even a true bishop because he was "consecrated" in the invalid new "rite" of bishops. He is however a true priest though a heretical one.

Here's some info:

~The Pope In Red - Home Page~

papal imposters - YouTube

Catholic News | Consecration of Russia to Immaculate Heart | Bosco Two Pillars