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Within the context of our history with Mexico (and Canada), we have had open borders with them (even when Mexico had great violence and revolutions) until we achieved that Fortress mentality at the advent of WWII (and consequently, the Cold War). We were made to live in fear at the behest of our media and government. This illegal immigration scare is a lot of baloney. We DO need strict and strong border protection, but that should be against things like drug and arms running. We do need to reform entitlements as well so that immigrants don't do what they do in England (go on the Dole). The point is, that this "illegal" immigration problem is one of our own devising and it is a new phenomena in the world. The idea that you can stop people from going where they wish is pure hogwash and antithetical to our ideals. If you have a problem that you cannot solve, then you are going about it all wrong. Make the problem work to your advantage or mitigate it the best way possible by learning from your mistakes. If one way doesn't work, then you think out of the box and be open to other ways to solve the problem. What we have been doing hasn't been working, so it's time to make lemonade out of lemons.
WTH? If we actually had open borders with Canada and Mexico we wouldn't have any immigration laws for Border Patrol. No, what we have is just people sneaking in violating them. We can't stop people from coming here without authorization? Are you kidding me? Yes, what is not working is that our immigration laws haven't been enforced. Plain and simple but they can and should be. At the very least we should remove all incentives for coming here illegally like jobs, benefits and birthright citizenship. Appears all you want though is for Mexicans and other illegals to come here unabated. We have legal immigration quotas for good reasons. Haven't you ever given any thought as to why that is? Think man!!!
Census Bureau data also shows that the number of poor Hispanic children in the U.S. jumped 8.9 percent in 2010 to 6.1 million, surpassing for the first time the number of poor white children at 5 million. In contrast, 4.4 million black children were poor.
An analysis by the Pew Hispanic Center in Washington attributed the rapid rise in poverty among Hispanic children to the growing number of Hispanics overall, high birth rates and declining economic fortunes.
With the poverty comes a wide range of social ills: substance abuse, prostitution, unattended children at home and the rising incidence of diabetes and other serious illnesses that result because people do not have health insurance and do not address symptoms when they first arise.
We want to bring in more poor Hispanic immigrants and yet we have this issue to fix.
Location: In a Galaxy far, far away called Germany
4,300 posts, read 4,410,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory
WTH? If we actually had open borders with Canada and Mexico we wouldn't have any immigration laws for Border Patrol. No, what we have is just people sneaking in violating them. We can't stop people from coming here without authorization? Are you kidding me? Yes, what is not working is that our immigration laws haven't been enforced. Plain and simple but they can and should be. At the very least we should remove all incentives for coming here illegally like jobs, benefits and birthright citizenship. Appears all you want though is for Mexicans and other illegals to come here unabated. We have legal immigration quotas for good reasons. Haven't you ever given any thought as to why that is? Think man!!!
I am thinking. We had open borders with Mexico for our entire history until the 1940's. That includes during Mexico's most violent times (even more violent than today's drug wars). America survived. The idea of our imminent collapse is a bogey man set up to scare people into forgetting our history and what made this nation great. There isn't a mass of humanity on our southern border trying to sneak in and bring about the destruction of our nation. Immigration laws were enacted to keep spies, communists, and criminals out. That still needs to be the case, but those laws were not meant to stop all people from entering our nation. That is a modern day corruption of an American ideal. By the way, the reason those immigration laws aren't passed is because it is IMPOSSIBLE to enforce them. It is no different than that Prohibition nonsense. Passing laws that are impossible to enforce is stupid. Work smarter, not harder.
I am thinking. We had open borders with Mexico for our entire history until the 1940's. That includes during Mexico's most violent times (even more violent than today's drug wars). America survived. The idea of our imminent collapse is a bogey man set up to scare people into forgetting our history and what made this nation great. There isn't a mass of humanity on our southern border trying to sneak in and bring about the destruction of our nation. Immigration laws were enacted to keep spies, communists, and criminals out. That still needs to be the case, but those laws were not meant to stop all people from entering our nation. That is a modern day corruption of an American ideal.
Wrong! We have had immigration laws since our country's founding. Our nation's history isn't about ILLEGAL immigration but LEGAL immigration. Are you really this dense? No one has said that Mexicans come her to destory our nation intentionally. With continued massive illegal immigration it will be destroyed automatically.
Wrong again! Immigration laws are in place not only for the reasons you mentioned but to control population growth and to protect American jobs and resources. Who is trying to stop all people from entering this country? Spin, much? You aren't aware that we allow in 1 million legal immigrants per year and that doesn't even include the family reuinfication catagories. Think with less emotionalism and more common sense and logic for a change. This country does not belong to foreigners it belongs to its citizens.
Location: In a Galaxy far, far away called Germany
4,300 posts, read 4,410,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory
Wrong! We have had immigration laws since our country's founding. Our nation's history isn't about ILLEGAL immigration but LEGAL immigration. Are you really this dense? No one has said that Mexicans come her to destory our nation intentionally. With continued massive illegal immigration it will be destroyed automatically.
Wrong again! Immigration laws are in place not only for the reasons you mentioned but to control population growth and to protect American jobs and resources. Who is trying to stop all people from entering this country? Spin, much? You aren't aware that we allow in 1 million legal immigrants per year and that doesn't even include the family reuinfication catagories. Think with less emotionalism and more common sense and logic for a change. This country does not belong to foreigners it belongs to its citizens.
I'm afraid it you who is wrong and thinking rather emotionally. Yes, we had immigration laws (always), but they were nothing like they were today. Do yourself a favor and google some of those old laws. You will find that many who entered illegally were made legal if they applied for it. Amnesty actions were done on a regular basis. I'm not dense (unless you ask my ex-wife), but I am well versed in American History. Aaaannd - Yes. I know that immigration laws were meant to stop more than the 3 reasons I listed. That wasn't intended to be an exhaustive list, but to give the reader an idea of the types of things they were meant to address. These laws are not realistic in that we do not have the manpower (even if we weren't in an economic downturn) and money to enforce them. We already have an 18 ft fence and even that doesn't keep them out. I agree that we need to think. Because what we have been doing has NEVER worked. Time for some new ideas.
I'm afraid it you who is wrong and thinking rather emotionally. Yes, we had immigration laws (always), but they were nothing like they were today. Do yourself a favor and google some of those old laws. You will find that many who entered illegally were made legal if they applied for it. Amnesty actions were done on a regular basis. I'm not dense (unless you ask my ex-wife), but I am well versed in American History. Aaaannd - Yes. I know that immigration laws were meant to stop more than the 3 reasons I listed. That wasn't intended to be an exhaustive list, but to give the reader an idea of the types of things they were meant to address. These laws are not realistic in that we do not have the manpower (even if we weren't in an economic downturn) and money to enforce them. We already have an 18 ft fence and even that doesn't keep them out. I agree that we need to think. Because what we have been doing has NEVER worked. Time for some new ideas.
I'm not googling anything. You made the claim so you provide the proof. We don't have the manpower? Even HS has said it would be cheaper to deport them rather than allowing them to remain here. How much manpower and expense do you think it is going to take to legalize these people and monitor them for back taxes, learning English, background checks? It will be an enormous expense. We have very little viable fencing along our southern border. Much of it is still like cattle wire that anyone can get through. We don't need any new ideas just enforce the laws on the books and include removing the incentives for them to come here. Otherwise we are going to be in this same predicament in 20 years. When does it end?
Location: In a Galaxy far, far away called Germany
4,300 posts, read 4,410,174 times
Reputation: 2394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory
I'm not googling anything. You made the claim so you provide the proof. We don't have the manpower? Even HS has said it would be cheaper to deport them rather than allowing them to remain here. How much manpower and expense do you think it is going to take to legalize these people and monitor them for back taxes, learning English, background checks? It will be an enormous expense. We have very little viable fencing along our southern border. Much of it is still like cattle wire that anyone can get through. We don't need any new ideas just enforce the laws on the books and include removing the incentives for them to come here. Otherwise we are going to be in this same predicament in 20 years. When does it end?
If you don't want to google, then don't. I don't feel the need to educate you, that is up to you. As what HS may, or may not, have said - whatever. Our policy towards illegal immigration has never worked. THAT is indisputable. It's ineffectuality is clear no matter who is in the white house or in congress or who sits on the supreme court. Why? The answer is obvious - it doesn't work. We can gripe about the reasons for it, but the fact remains that it doesn't.
If you don't want to google, then don't. I don't feel the need to educate you, that is up to you. As what HS may, or may not, have said - whatever. Our policy towards illegal immigration has never worked. THAT is indisputable. It's ineffectuality is clear no matter who is in the white house or in congress or who sits on the supreme court. Why? The answer is obvious - it doesn't work. We can gripe about the reasons for it, but the fact remains that it doesn't.
It is always up to the person making a claim to support their claims. You know you're wrong and I am right and that is why you won't provide a link to your claims. Thanks, I am fully educated. Educated enough to know that we have never had open borders with Mexico or Canada.
What part of it hasn't worked because of our lapse in enforcement aren't you getting? Let's give it a try plus removing the incentives to come here. The solution certainly isn't to allow the entire world's poor and needy to come to our country.
If enforcement doesn't work then why are we talking amnesty? How is amnesty going to make a difference?
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