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The girl said she couldn't say no because she was too drunk, so are you saying that alcohol does not have any effect on a boy of the same age? Girls can get drunk, boys cannot get drunk?
Do you see that there is a slight difference between being too drunk to defend yourself from a crime, and comitting a crime and blaming being drunk?
You know, one part comitting a criminal offence and the other one...not?
If a drunk man comes over another drunk man and kills him and takes his wallet, is the victim to blame for being drunk? You'd give the same amount of sympathy to someone who robbed a store while drunk, knifed a guy while drunk, or killed a family while driving drunk?
Also the perpetrators posted pics and videos on the internet the next day, long after they had sobered up.
The level of rape-positivity in your post is unbelivable. You're not supposed to rape girls. Its wrong and illegal. It is not any less wrong and illegal if they are drunk, or if you are. Being drunk is not an excuse for comtting a criminal offence, nor is it any mitigation if the victim was drunk or otherwise unable to defend herself.
If the boys were passed out as the girl was (possibly drugged) ... then all things would be equal. Then yes, I'd blame her as much as the boys ... who wouldn't have been capable of rape if they were passed out.
Or how about this. If a man and woman are both drunk, and the man decides to rape her and she tries to say no but can't fight off someone bigger and stronger than she is ... how does that work in your fantasy rape-apologist world?
Do you think these stupid things through before you post them?
So you are claiming that alcohol has no effect on a boy's brain. That a boy is never affected by alcohol, his judgement can never be impaired?
According to the witnesses and the girl's own friends, she was not passed out when the rapes began, she was walking out to the car with one of the boys. She was just too drunk to say no and to remember -- according to the girl.
And a MARRIED and sober Bill Clinton was incapable of saying no when it came to having sex including the rape of Juanita Brodderick and using his power to sodomize a young girl intern. These kids surely come from liberal families who admired the sexual predator Bill Clinton. They should have used his line "it all depends on what the meaning of is is".
Again, no one was eve gang raped prior to the Clinton Administration?
So you are claiming that alcohol has no effect on a boy's brain. That a boy is never affected by alcohol, his judgement can never be impaired?
According to the witnesses and the girl's own friends, she was not passed out when the rapes began, she was walking out to the car with one of the boys. She was just too drunk to say no and to remember -- according to the girl.
SO WHAT?
It's astounding to me that people here of your ilk refer to moral decay caused by lack of God and liberalism, when your own immoral stance on this is just as heinous as the perps and their excusers.
A drunken 16 or 17 year old rapist is just as incapable of saying no as a drunken 16 year old victim.
What's with the idiot parents who allow kids to party like this in the first place? Those who provided the houses - with the basements where the rapes took place need to be in prison themselves as well as those who provided the unlimited alcohol.
All the adults involved including the parents should be given more blame than their wild out-of-control drunken children.
First, how do you know the parents ALLOWED the kids to do anything? We're pretty strict parents, but once your kids turn 16 and they can drive, you have to have a certain amount of trust that you've raised them right, because despite your best intentions, they can lie and come up with a plan that fools you. My boys haven't been in 10 minutes of serious trouble in their lives, but if they wanted to tell me they were going to meet friends in town at a movie and then get something to eat, how would I know that they weren't at a party instead? It would be pretty obvious if they came home drunk and after their curfew, but it wouldn't be until then.
As far as boy girl parties go at 16 and 17--what the heck is a date, if it's not being alone with someone of the opposite sex? Do you allow your 16 or 17 year old daughter to date, or to go to events with a group of kids without a parent there? Has she ever been alone in a car with a boy? At some point, you have to trust your kids. You can't wrap a teen in cotton wool, but you can try to make sure they have the maturity and judgement to deal with circumstances before they're thrust into them. We host an annual New Years eve party at our house for older teenagers, with the goal being that it's a safe, fun place to be that's alcohol free. The adults stay upstairs and play cards, and the kids stay downstairs. We make the occasional swing through to refresh snacks, but we don't breath down their necks and stay downstairs for the entire night. We've never had a problem with their behavior. There has to be a balance.
I have 5 teenage sons. If a girl showed up somewhere so drunk (or drugged?) that she was unconscious, you'd better believe that they would be the responsible party if they chose to strip her naked and sexually assault her. They'd also be responsible if they stood by and watched ANYONE do the same thing without doing their best to get her out of there safely, or calling for help. That's just basic human decency, which should have been instilled in them from the time they were born.
Yes--you need to teach your daughter to be aware of her surroundings, to know that if you aren't in control bad people can hurt you, and to give her a chance to grow up and have some independence at the same time that you help her stay out of experiences that might be over her head, but you can't be everywhere at once. Even with the best parenting, kids are kids and she might just trick you some day without realizing what she's getting herself into. The BOYS who raped that girl are criminals. The girl used bad judgement, but no amount of bad judgement makes her responsible for what happened to her. Part of being a kid is learning from experiences, and when you haven't had many, it's hard to NOT make mistakes from time to time.
Do you see that there is a slight difference between being too drunk to defend yourself from a crime, and comitting a crime and blaming being drunk?
You know, one part comitting a criminal offence and the other one...not?
If a drunk man comes over another drunk man and kills him and takes his wallet, is the victim to blame for being drunk?
As well as the perpetrators posting pics and videos on the internet the next day, long after they had sobered up?
The level of rape-positivity in your post is unbelivable. You're not supposed to rape girls. Its wrong and illegal. It is not any less wrong and illegal if they are drunk, or if you are. Being drunk is not an excuse for comtting a criminal offence, nor is it any mitigation if the victim was drunk or otherwise unable to defend herself.
Yes that's the liberal feminist view on this.
In the Conservative view, you are not supposed to be drunk at age 16, parents are not supposed to allow their children to be out all night getting drunk and raping and being raped. Conservatives might actually teach *gasp* abstinence -- no sex for a 16 year old and expect that parents be responsible for their children and actually *gasp* chaperone their childen's parties.
There are actually children who are expected to be home by 11 pm and are not allowed to come home drunk. But no -- you're not supposed to be a responsible parent today, that's just crimping the kids' lives.
Not to mention the fact that these kids grew up with the Clintonian definitions of sex and rape -- sodomy isn't sex, Clinton was admired by the liberals for taking advantage of women and using them to get his jollies. And when caught -- the president himself was allowed to lie and lie and lie over it. Juanita Brodderick one of the rape victims was blamed as the victim.
Oh, baloney! These kids weren't even born until well into the Clinton administration, 1995 or 1996. They didn't become teens until the Bush administration. It's funny, on the NPR comments about this rape, there are several conservative guys trying to say this isn't rape b/c no penis was inserted into a vagina. Wasn't that what Clinton argued?
A drunken 16 or 17 year old rapist is just as incapable of saying no as a drunken 16 year old victim.
What's with the idiot parents who allow kids to party like this in the first place? Those who provided the houses - with the basements where the rapes took place need to be in prison themselves as well as those who provided the unlimited alcohol.
All the adults involved including the parents should be given more blame than their wild out-of-control drunken children.
That's where you're completely and totally full of crap. If alcohol caused people to rape people, then every bar would be full of women thrown down on the ground and attacked on sight. I'll agree that it can lower your inhibitions, but it's not going to make you do something that you would NEVER do normally--it doesn't change who you fundamentally are. Is alcohol an excuse for murdering someone, or robbing a bank? Lots of people drink and don't hurt other people--EVER. If you're already someone willing to attack women (or beat them), then you might be more likely to do it when you're drunk, but it's going to make you a rapist or an abuser.
The kick they got out of hurting that girl is that they could CONTROL her. She was like a dead body--they joked about it. They could do whatever they wanted to her and she couldn't do a thing. Rape is less about sex and all about the thrill of being able to have power and control over another person.
In the Conservative view, you are not supposed to be drunk at age 16, parents are not supposed to allow their children to be out all night getting drunk and raping and being raped. Conservatives might actually teach *gasp* abstinence -- no sex for a 16 year old and expect that parents be responsible for their children and actually *gasp* chaperone their childen's parties.
There are actually children who are expected to be home by 11 pm and are not allowed to come home drunk. But no -- you're not supposed to be a responsible parent today, that's just crimping the kids' lives.
So what?
You've gone through some pretty serious rape apology on this thread, to the point of saying the rapists were incapable of saying no (!)
What does it have to do with anything that the kids were not behaving according to the Conservative view? Are you saying misbehehaving kids should be punished with gangrape? It is somehow ok if they weren't acting accoring to the conservative view, but were going to parties and drinking alcohol? Then its ok to gangrape girls?
Is that how you plan to raise your daughters? Rape as a punishment?
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