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“He explained to me that homosexual Soldiers were now afraid of me,” Sommers said. “He showed me a letter from an Army Band colleague that demanded that I publicly apologize (to) the band for my statements and that I should be removed from positions of leadership and influence.”
But you've shown you bias. You have shown you support for different classes of soldiers depending on what they do.
I have absolutely no idea what point you're trying to make. Do you think the piccolo player in the Army Band is a "leader"? Who does he command?
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Regardless of your personal prejudice, there is no difference on how someone should act or be treated for their rank.
I believe that falls under the military concept of "tough noogies". The E-6 who's expected to lead his squad towards enemy gunfire is treated with more respect than the E-6 who's responsible for blowing the sousaphone.
Right now Limbaugh, Hannity and Levin are looking at their bank accounts and smiling, courtesy of the gullible idiots who pay money to hear their views.
I believe that falls under the military concept of "tough noogies". The E-6 who's expected to lead his squad towards enemy gunfire is treated with more respect than the E-6 who's responsible for blowing the sousaphone.
In the context of this thread, it doesn't excuse his behavior by saying he's really not a senior NCO who should be setting standards for those junior to him.
And you don't treat someone with more respect in the military based on what you think of them. You treat them with respect based on their rank and position. That is called order.
How much respect you feel or how much reverence you have for someone is up to the individual. How they act in uniform is not. In addition to order, following this when in your head you respect your 1st Sgt. more than a bandsman is called discipline.
Otherwise jerks would stop saluting band conductors because they aren't "real" officers.
In the context of this thread, it doesn't excuse his behavior by saying he's really not a senior NCO who should be setting standards for those junior to him.
Oh, I am not making up excuses for him. Quite the contrary.
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And you don't treat someone with more respect in the military based on what you think of them. You treat them with respect based on their rank and position. That is called order.
How much respect you feel or how much reverence you have for someone is up to the individual. How they act in uniform is not. In addition to order, following this when in your head you respect your 1st Sgt. more than a bandsman is called discipline.
Otherwise jerks would stop saluting band conductors because they aren't "real" officers.
<shrug> In my experience, soldiers can show respect (or lack of same) in a myriad of subtle ways.
<shrug> In my experience, soldiers can show respect (or lack of same) in a myriad of subtle ways.
Not doubting that. I know how it works. But his juniors weren't that subtle. We probably agree more than it appears since most of what I'm talking is "should" not "is" but I'm looking at it from the prosecution angle.
I bet though getting drummed out of a military band has better sound to it.
But the reason I think they are going to go for more than an LOR (and why would you lawyer up for that?) is because he's a spokesperson for the Army. There's now the quandary of him up front at a concert singing a song and dance number with the possibility that a number of the audience is going to know about the incident. And who knows if protests are going to break out outside venues in his support.
He's high profile as a recruitment tool and even more so because he made it so.
If I knew you personally I would bet a substantial amount of money with you that the only thing that will happen to this guy is a possible transfer to another unit for morale reasons and intense encouragement to drop his retirement papers. If everything I have read is true, other than the twitter, and that is weak, they have nothing on him and, as a matter of fact, his command has overreacted in their dealings with him. Even in the military, people have rights. Does he have a really bad attitude and deserve a really bad efficiency report to match? Absolutely. But that just means he won't get promoted again, not that he is subjected to judicial punishment. The punishment of soldiers is regulated by the UCMJ and commanders, no matter how high, can not just ignore it willy-nilly.
Right now Limbaugh, Hannity and Levin are looking at their bank accounts and smiling, courtesy of the gullible idiots who pay money to hear their views.
If I knew you personally I would bet a substantial amount of money with you that the only thing that will happen to this guy is a possible transfer to another unit for morale reasons and intense encouragement to drop his retirement papers. If everything I have read is true, other than the twitter, and that is weak, they have nothing on him and, as a matter of fact, his command has overreacted in their dealings with him. Even in the military, people have rights. Does he have a really bad attitude and deserve a really bad efficiency report to match? Absolutely. But that just means he won't get promoted again, not that he is subjected to judicial punishment. The punishment of soldiers is regulated by the UCMJ and commanders, no matter how high, can not just ignore it willy-nilly.
Yeah but that's judging it from one side. We'll see. But why the lawsuit threats for "certain belief that doesn’t align with what the military wants you to believe – particularly religious beliefs – you’re no longer welcome in the U.S. military.”
That's a hefty accusation and I don't know why it would be made in order to hold of an Article 15 or less. If it's true surely the chain of command could have handled it since I don't believe that's the Army's official policy.
And does anyone leave the band and enter regular service? He's spent his entire career in bands first as a chorister for the Air Force. If advance placement was the same then as it is now that means he was an E-6 when he joined and has been promoted twice in 25 years. So I guess they even out a career with longer time in grade by starting you off higher but how could he shift from being an E8 now to an E8 in another career?
And then there's the matter of being able to pass PT a few years down the line. Fighting to stay in by filing a federal lawsuit for what? 5 more years?
I don't think him being a top singer for the band as a spokesperson is going to work and I don't think "going back" to being a regular soldier is going to work because he never was one.
So I think we're in agreement on what should happen. Sometimes it doesn't matter who's right or wrong the little guy ends up leaving.
I looked for about an hour to figure out what happens when someone loses band MOS but I couldn't figure it out. I didn't realize before this thread that this was a career based upon civilian training. Still, my opinion on acting like an NCO when you are one remains. But I see your point better when you start BT as an NCO (or rather probably on graduation I don't know).
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