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Except that is an untrue statement because numerous states have raised their minimum wage and has not caused a loss of jobs because of it because the job market looks at more important things. If you business can't handle paying some minimum wage employees then there is something wrong with your business.
So the laws of economics do not apply to the labor market? For every other good or service in the universe, when the price goes up then demand falls. If the price of gasoline or milk or bacon or eggs or aluminum or electricity or corn or anything else goes up 10% or 25% or 40%, then less of it gets sold and bought. People and businesses figure out other ways to do things so they won't have to pay the higher price.
No business can pay an employee less than the actual value of their labor. If a business tried to pay less, the employee would simply go to another employer who would pay the market value of the labor. And no business can sustainably overpay for labor, either. The UAW pretty much proved that.
The problem of low wages can only be overcome by each worker doing what they need to do to become more valuable to employers--through more productive attitudes and habits, skills, education and training.
A law that says the minimum value of an hour of labor is $10 or $15 is not going to be any more successful than a law that says the sky is green, not blue.
No, in other words it doesn't matter what I think is or isn't okay, if the Supreme Court rules something as constitutional, then by that definition it is constitutional until it is ruled that it isn't. I still think Zimmerman shot an unarmed black teen and got away with murder, but that doesn't change the verdict, not am I gonna hunt him down and play judge because I didn't agree with the judge.
So since 1941 minimum wage has been deemed constitutional regardless if you agree with the ruling or not.
OK so then what was your original point? Obviously this is just an internet forum where we debate. Nobody who thought zim was guilty is going to try to hunt him down and bring him to justice. By the same token had he been found guilty, no CD poster on the other side was going to try to break him out of jail.
Same with the constitutionality of the federal minimum wage. Because the SCOTUS has ruled one way doesn't mean that they are right, nor that we can't argue that they were wrong.
So the laws of economics do not apply to the labor market? For every other good or service in the universe, when the price goes up then demand falls. If the price of gasoline or milk or bacon or eggs or aluminum or electricity or corn or anything else goes up 10% or 25% or 40%, then less of it gets sold and bought. People and businesses figure out other ways to do things so they won't have to pay the higher price.
No business can pay an employee less than the actual value of their labor. If a business tried to pay less, the employee would simply go to another employer who would pay the market value of the labor. And no business can sustainably overpay for labor, either. The UAW pretty much proved that.
The problem of low wages can only be overcome by each worker doing what they need to do to become more valuable to employers--through more productive attitudes and habits, skills, education and training.
A law that says the minimum value of an hour of labor is $10 or $15 is not going to be any more successful than a law that says the sky is green, not blue.
That isn't what I said, nor what I was talking about. If a small increase is too much for a business then they are doing something wrong.
OK so then what was your original point? Obviously this is just an internet forum where we debate. Nobody who thought zim was guilty is going to try to hunt him down and bring him to justice. By the same token had he been found guilty, no CD poster on the other side was going to try to break him out of jail.
Same with the constitutionality of the federal minimum wage. Because the SCOTUS has ruled one way doesn't mean that they are right, nor that we can't argue that they were wrong.
Actually the Supreme Court's ruling makes it constitutional, your opinion does not make it not constitutional, but you are welcome to debate why you think your opinion that the federal minimum wage is unconstitutional, but at this moment it is still constitutional in this country and the Supreme Court's ruling in 1941 backs that up which I'd factual not opinion.
cheap labor is great for multi-national corporations. It is horrible for everyone else who works for a living. That includes the working poor, the middle class and the working rich.
Henry Ford had it right. He could have paid his employees a low wage. The economic times were tough and the jobs would have been filled. But he paid his employees a good wage because he wanted them as customers. He wanted them to be able to buy products he was selling. That is what leads to growth people. Spending power in the working and middle class. If you lower wages you lower aggregate demand and you hurt the economy.
But its not about the economy will some of you. You just really really resent that people will low skills in the marketplace have the gall to want to be paid a decent wage for their labor.
But its not about the economy will some of you. You just really really resent that people will low skills in the marketplace have the gall to want to be paid a decent wage for their labor.
Actually, I just remember back to when my labor was only worth 90 cents an hour, and what I had to do over a period of nearly four decades to increase my value to the rest of society to the $250,000/year range. And wonder why today's minimum wage workers cannot make themselves more valuable to the rest of us.
Question to conservatives... (economy, minimum-wage related)
The typical conservative says that the minimum wage along with welfare should be eliminated and people should be paid what they are worth. They also say that a person that's poor should not spend money on entertainment devices, children (they shouldn't have them in the first place), alcohol, luxurious vehicles, etc. In addition, they make the claim that the minimum wage has eliminated jobs. They also claim that low-value workers should live as illegal immigrants do.
...One interesting point I must bring up is that despite having a relatively low amount of the population working the actual minimum wage, many people making above the minimum wage are not far from it, on top of not having sufficient working hours and having to depend on government welfare.
If you conservatives had their way with minimum wage and welfare, how would you assist those seeing lower wages adjust in a manner that they won't vote for politicians that will give them the things taken away?
Or should those receiving money from the government be unable to vote?
It's a joke to pay somebody fifteen bucks to dump fries. Every high school kid in the nation will be going to fast food restraunts and the folks you want to "save" will be looking for a job.
No one said anything about requiring the minimum wage to be $15/hr.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo
So the laws of economics do not apply to the labor market? For every other good or service in the universe, when the price goes up then demand falls. If the price of gasoline or milk or bacon or eggs or aluminum or electricity or corn or anything else goes up 10% or 25% or 40%, then less of it gets sold and bought. People and businesses figure out other ways to do things so they won't have to pay the higher price.
No business can pay an employee less than the actual value of their labor. If a business tried to pay less, the employee would simply go to another employer who would pay the market value of the labor. And no business can sustainably overpay for labor, either. The UAW pretty much proved that.
The problem of low wages can only be overcome by each worker doing what they need to do to become more valuable to employers--through more productive attitudes and habits, skills, education and training.
A law that says the minimum value of an hour of labor is $10 or $15 is not going to be any more successful than a law that says the sky is green, not blue.
Right now we have a law that says the minimum value of an hour of labor is $7.25/hr. I do not see anyone on this thread advocating for $10 or $15/hr. I do not support $15/h; could maybe support $10 as my daughter worked for less in a children's museum that had some advanced education requirements. She was also responsible for other people's kids as well, which is always hard work.
A worker can do all the above and the employer can say, "Sorry Charlie, that's all we're paying you".
Last edited by CaseyB; 12-10-2013 at 05:23 PM..
Reason: off topic
Actually, I just remember back to when my labor was only worth 90 cents an hour, and what I had to do over a period of nearly four decades to increase my value to the rest of society to the $250,000/year range. And wonder why today's minimum wage workers cannot make themselves more valuable to the rest of us.
what are you talking about???
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Question to conservatives... (economy, minimum-wage related)
