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You can't be that dumb. No deductible means that you pay nothing before benefits start. (cough, cough) The office visits in this plan are 10 bucks. You pay a maximum of 2k in a year, no matter what happens and that includes everything from copays to prescriptions. The absolute worst momma would pay for her child's health care in a year is $4400 for premiums and medical costs. In your wonderful plan, she would pay at least $3600 for the premiums and deductible before seeing a nickel of benefits and then would be stuck with thousands more in potential out of pocket max. Maybe that is better, maybe not, depending on if the kid gets sick. No HSA plan is "platinum" in actuarial value, last year, this year or any other year. The one I quoted is. Apples to apples, please.
Anyway my point in the post was to counter your bald-faced lie that Obamacare was going to cost her $1000 a month for her kid. That is utter nonsense. The FL plans I saw run from as low as $63 for the catastrophic up to about $250 for the very best of the platinums. There are over 140 plans in the county I looked at.
You are the one who's acting dumb. No deductible but max out of pocket expenses is $2000. What's it going to be? Nothing is "free". You are either going to be nickel and dimed to $2000 if you keep using the system or not. Right?
I never said it would cost $1000/month for her kid. I said her employer "family coverage" was $1100 for herself and her kid (because her employer treats "family" as 2 or more persons).
Second under your plan (2014). It will cost $200/month, No deductible but $2000 max IN network expenses. So max you are looking at is $2400 plus $2000. So around $4400 right?
Under pre ACA plans. I could have easily gotten a pediatric only plan for $100/month HSA $2000 deductible. There ARE ZERO IN Network cost after the $2000 deductible has been met. Remember I posted a couple of weeks ago on 21 year who could get $2500 MAX out of pocket cost in Florida for $135/month?
So pre ACA I would be looking at $1200 in premiums for my son. Max $2000 out of pocket expenses. So my max I would be looking at is $3200. But here's the kicker. It's an HSA compatible plan that covers all preventive services and pre ACA laws already covered well child visits. So unless your child is really sick, you are much better off with that plan. And you put $3200 a year PRE TAX in an HSA savings account. You are saving between $700-1100 on your taxes.
So that max $3200 expense with this plan really is costing you around $2200 when you factor in tax savings. A much better deal with the ACA regulation for the VAST majority of pediatric patients. Right?
You are the one who's acting dumb. No deductible but max out of pocket expenses is $2000. What's it going to be? Nothing is "free". You are either going to be nickel and dimed to $2000 if you keep using the system or not. Right?
I never said it would cost $1000/month for her kid. I said her employer "family coverage" was $1100 for herself and her kid (because her employer treats "family" as 2 or more persons).
Second under your plan (2014). It will cost $200/month, No deductible but $2000 max IN network expenses. So max you are looking at is $2400 plus $2000. So around $4800 right?
Under pre ACA plans. I could have easily gotten a pediatric only plan for $100/month HSA $2000 deductible. There ARE ZERO IN Network cost after the $2000 deductible has been met. Remember I posted a couple of weeks ago on 21 year who could get $2500 MAX out of pocket cost in Florida for $135/month?
So pre ACA I would be looking at $1200 in premiums for my son. Max $2000 out of pocket expenses. So my max I would be looking at is $3200. But here's the kicker. It's an HSA compatible plan that covers all preventive services and pre ACA laws already covered well child visits. So unless your child is really sick, you are much better off with that plan. And you put $3200 a year PRE TAX in an HSA savings account. You are saving between $700-1100 on your taxes.
So that max $3200 expense with this plan really is costing you around $2200 when you factor in tax savings. A much better deal with the ACA regulation for the VAST majority of pediatric patients. Right?
I have yet to see an HSA where the deductible is equal to the max out of pocket. What I see is that there is a deductible and then there is a period where the insured has co-insurance up to some maximum out of pocket. In fact the $6350 max we see in this year's plans is referred to as the "HSA maximum for 2014" under law. Now, I have not been a player in the individual market so I won't argue that deductible=max is not unheard of, just that it would be very exceptional to have a policy like that.
As for deductibility, maybe that matters to people like you and me who have fairly sizable incomes, but the majority of Americans don't even itemize finding the standard deduction more to their advantage. Over the years, though, that HSA would might be a real blessing as income rises. So I have nothing against HSA per se, in fact I am considering one for the tax advantage myself, though I don't have long until I reach the promised land of Medicare (I understand I can pay my Medicare premiums out of it though).
Lastly, if you want to go with the "kid is never sick" plan, then the catastrophic is the way to go. $60 bucks and you get three free visits in addition to the preventive and free immunizations. Of course you risk $6350, but for most kids you would be well ahead of the game.
Millions of Americans have their personal information at risk and the White House refuses to turn over Obamacare security docs to Congress. Just how bad is security at healthcare.gov? We don't know because the administration refuses to tell us.
Don't let liberals convince you they don't want to tell hackers where to go. First, there shouldn't be holes in the first place, second hackers will find them anyway. That's what they do.
I have yet to see an HSA where the deductible is equal to the max out of pocket. What I see is that there is a deductible and then there is a period where the insured has co-insurance up to some maximum out of pocket. In fact the $6350 max we see in this year's plans is referred to as the "HSA maximum for 2014" under law. Now, I have not been a player in the individual market so I won't argue that deductible=max is not unheard of, just that it would be very exceptional to have a policy like that.
As for deductibility, maybe that matters to people like you and me who have fairly sizable incomes, but the majority of Americans don't even itemize finding the standard deduction more to their advantage. Over the years, though, that HSA would might be a real blessing as income rises. So I have nothing against HSA per se, in fact I am considering one for the tax advantage myself, though I don't have long until I reach the promised land of Medicare (I understand I can pay my Medicare premiums out of it though).
Lastly, if you want to go with the "kid is never sick" plan, then the catastrophic is the way to go. $60 bucks and you get three free visits in addition to the preventive and free immunizations. Of course you risk $6350, but for most kids you would be well ahead of the game.
I've been in the HSA game for a very long time. I know all the ins and outs. I am copying this on ehealthinsurance verbatim for 2013 plan for 22 year old male.
CIGNA HealthCare of Florida Inc
FL Health Savings 3000
Compare
You pay nothing after deductible
Find Doctors $3,000 $115.00 monthly costs
The ACA gets rid of awesome plans like this HSA compatible 2013 plan. $115 a month for 22 year old. $3000 max ('You pay nothing after deductible).
These plans are essentially banned from the ACA.
It's a much better deal than the "catastrophic" $6350 plan. You pay $600 more in premiums but keep your max out of pocket expenses at half the 2014 max rates.
The individual market from ages 18-40 is much cheaper under pre ACA than it is under the ACA. That's why people are upset.
Of course if you have a pre existing condition, you "may" benefit. Older sicker folks benefit the most. Than older folks. Than on down the list.
Sebelius was not one of the people who signed up for Obamacare. Secretary Sebelius expressed contentment with her own federal health plan.
She likes it and the Affordable Care Act allows her to keep it. So in addition to first causing harm by taking health insurance plans away from millions of individuals, ObamaCare succeeds in preserving ruling-class privilege. Period. Keep your healthcare period
I've been in the HSA game for a very long time. I know all the ins and outs. I am copying this on ehealthinsurance verbatim for 2013 plan for 22 year old male.
CIGNA HealthCare of Florida Inc
FL Health Savings 3000
Compare
You pay nothing after deductible
Find Doctors $3,000 $115.00 monthly costs
The ACA gets rid of awesome plans like this HSA compatible 2013 plan. $115 a month for 22 year old. $3000 max ('You pay nothing after deductible).
These plans are essentially banned from the ACA.
It's a much better deal than the "catastrophic" $6350 plan. You pay $600 more in premiums but keep your max out of pocket expenses at half the 2014 max rates.
The individual market from ages 18-40 is much cheaper under pre ACA than it is under the ACA. That's why people are upset.
Of course if you have a pre existing condition, you "may" benefit. Older sicker folks benefit the most. Than older folks. Than on down the list.
Yes. That would be a great plan if one could qualify medically. Many would, of course, but many would not. That is the both the solution and the problem of the ACA. It turns the individual market where medical underwriting meant low costs in many cases to essentially a group plan where all comers are accepted. That comes at a cost to the young and healthy and a benefit to the not so healthy or the healthy but risky geezers like me. But let's face it, we all get older and we can all get sick. There is a certain amount of comfort in knowing that as we age, what we overpaid when younger will even out and we will never have to worry about going without insurance again. The vast majority of Americans are in group plans where the benefit is realized on a community basis. Most would never want to fend in the individual space. Now, everybody will be in a group plan. I think as time goes by and the initial sticker shock for some wears off, they will come to accept and embrace this approach much as those who have their employer plans do. If not, it can and will be changed.
Not for me, premiums go up 40%, deductible doubles and out of pocket goes through the roof to $12700.00 So how is this supposed to be good for "all" of us? Oh that is right, Obama lied like a snaky insurance salesman and politician to get my vote. He lied to get me to vote against my own benefit.
Yes. That would be a great plan if one could qualify medically. Many would, of course, but many would not. That is the both the solution and the problem of the ACA. It turns the individual market where medical underwriting meant low costs in many cases to essentially a group plan where all comers are accepted. That comes at a cost to the young and healthy and a benefit to the not so healthy or the healthy but risky geezers like me. But let's face it, we all get older and we can all get sick. There is a certain amount of comfort in knowing that as we age, what we overpaid when younger will even out and we will never have to worry about going without insurance again. The vast majority of Americans are in group plans where the benefit is realized on a community basis. Most would never want to fend in the individual space. Now, everybody will be in a group plan. I think as time goes by and the initial sticker shock for some wears off, they will come to accept and embrace this approach much as those who have their employer plans do. If not, it can and will be changed.
Article pretty much sums what's going on. The White House and insurance companies are both in bed with each other.
Either keep premiums low with teaser rates and very high deductibles (like I said the deductibles are twice as high as most deductibles from 2013).
At the same time. They have severely miscalculated the individual market.
Here are some thoughts on the exchanges
1. Pretty safe to assume most on individual market are:
Self employed and doing pretty well and won't qualify for subsides
Employed but employees often times find more affordable coverage on the individual market.
Those two groups alone make up probably 80-90% of the individual market right now. And even if we are generous and say 50% will qualify for subsidies. It still means 50% won't get subsides. That's a lot of people.
As for those who are uninsured. Most are either too poor or don't see any cost savings being forced into the exchanges.
I showed you the 2013 rate for younger people. $115/month. Most young insured are healthy. If they can't be convinced to pay $115/month in 2013.
How are you going to convince them to pay $100-200 with much higher deductibles. Alright they can pay $65/month with a $6350 deductble. $65 vs $100-115. It's all one in the same. Young people blow more on entertainment than health premiums. And most (unless they get mediciaid) will not get much of a subsidy.
A young adult making $20k a year.(clearly 200% of poverty) The premiums for 2014 will have to be close to $1800/year just to barley meet the 9.5% AGI cutoff for any subsidy. But most "silver" plans that subsidy are based on still come with a max $2000-4000 out of pocket expense.
It doesn't help many young uninsured people.
I am sure the Obama administration know they will have problems enrolling 40% "healthy and most likely younger healthy" onto the exchanges.
The exchanges is the key to the ACA. Not medicaid expansion. The White House has got to show the public those who could not afford insurance due to cost and pre existing condition are signing up for the exchanges with their exclusion of pre existing conditions and "generous" subsidies.
Right now only 30% who have signed up are getting subsidies. And we all know most of the early sign up are the sick. And the very poor who have signed up Medicaid.
Article pretty much sums what's going on. The White House and insurance companies are both in bed with each other.
Either keep premiums low with teaser rates and very high deductibles (like I said the deductibles are twice as high as most deductibles from 2013).
At the same time. They have severely miscalculated the individual market.
Here are some thoughts on the exchanges
1. Pretty safe to assume most on individual market are:
Self employed and doing pretty well and won't qualify for subsides
Employed but employees often times find more affordable coverage on the individual market.
Those two groups alone make up probably 80-90% of the individual market right now. And even if we are generous and say 50% will qualify for subsidies. It still means 50% won't get subsides. That's a lot of people.
As for those who are uninsured. Most are either too poor or don't see any cost savings being forced into the exchanges.
I showed you the 2013 rate for younger people. $115/month. Most young insured are healthy. If they can't be convinced to pay $115/month in 2013.
How are you going to convince them to pay $100-200 with much higher deductibles. Alright they can pay $65/month with a $6350 deductble. $65 vs $100-115. It's all one in the same. Young people blow more on entertainment than health premiums. And most (unless they get mediciaid) will not get much of a subsidy.
A young adult making $20k a year.(clearly 200% of poverty) The premiums for 2014 will have to be close to $1800/year just to barley meet the 9.5% AGI cutoff for any subsidy. But most "silver" plans that subsidy are based on still come with a max $2000-4000 out of pocket expense.
It doesn't help many young uninsured people.
I am sure the Obama administration know they will have problems enrolling 40% "healthy and most likely younger healthy" onto the exchanges.
The exchanges is the key to the ACA. Not medicaid expansion. The White House has got to show the public those who could not afford insurance due to cost and pre existing condition are signing up for the exchanges with their exclusion of pre existing conditions and "generous" subsidies.
Right now only 30% who have signed up are getting subsidies. And we all know most of the early sign up are the sick. And the very poor who have signed up Medicaid.
We do? Everyone that I know who has signed up is healthy. They are thrilled to be rid of crap plans that the doctors won't bill, that won't reimburse without a fight when they get sick, raise their rates 30% a year, and make them worry about cancellation every year. Those were all they could get because of some minor health issue from years previous or because one of their kids has ADHD or something. And yes, they are all well to do, mostly self-employed and probably are not getting a subsidy. That's just my crowd, though. Maybe young people just don't like filling in a ten page health questionnaire and then waiting weeks sometimes to see if they even qualify. In any case, as they say on election night - it is too early to call. We will see come March (or April or May or whenever HHS decides to close the signup period.).
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