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Old 12-15-2013, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
29,218 posts, read 22,371,062 times
Reputation: 23858

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Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
Any program that calls for the redistribution of wealth can be considered socialist. For example, the tax that the United States imposes on citizens to support the welfare system, which provides aid to financially unstable citizens, can be considered a socialist program. Healthcare systems like Medicare and Medicaid fall in the same category.

Another example of a socialist program is Canada's healthcare system. Proponents argue that it provides free healthcare to those who would otherwise be uninsured or underinsured. But the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Canada's free healthcare system often delays important medical procedures and treatments simply because it doesn't have the manpower, space and time to handle them. One highly publicized example of this untimely delay is the case of identical quadruplets born in Montana. The quadruplets had to be delivered in Great Falls because no hospital in the entirety of Canada, where their parents reside, could handle their delivery.

Socialist groups around the world continue to push for reform in their societies.
The Canadian health care system is a very poor example to use for claims of socialism.

Do you know any Canadians? If you do, ask one what they think of their health care. They love their system whether they are conservative, liberal or nothing. I've spent a lot of time up there, and they are universally happy with their health care. If that's socialism, then the term needs to be re-defined.

My former Canadian lady friend has a son who developed peritonitis after his appendix ruptured while he was in Australia. The young man spent over a month in the hospital, and the Australians, who also have universal health care, accepted his Canadian card to pay for his med costs.

If we had a similar arrangement, Americans who get very sick overseas could do the same.
A friend of mine's mother once had to undergo an emergency eye surgery in Italy, and he had to access her bank account first, then drain it to pay for the costs. As a result, she wasn't able to leave Italy until all the costs were paid off, and she came home stone broke after over 60 days. it was a good thing she had purchased a round trip ticket. My buddy had to wait over a week before the bank cleared his access to his mother's account, as he had no access before.
Being under a health care system similar to Canada's would have saved all that time and financial trouble for her.
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Old 12-15-2013, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Somewhere Out West
2,287 posts, read 2,588,592 times
Reputation: 1956
Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
My former Canadian lady friend has a son who developed peritonitis after his appendix ruptured while he was in Australia. The young man spent over a month in the hospital, and the Australians, who also have universal health care, accepted his Canadian card to pay for his med costs.
We had the same thing happen to us when travelling in Europe. It was either Belgium or The Netherlands where our Canadian health card was accepted for payment. Can't remember which one as it was a) my friend who was sick and b) very, very early in the morning when he had to seek treatment.
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Old 12-15-2013, 03:17 PM
 
8,104 posts, read 3,961,090 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Ah No! Unless your overlaps and opinions define the word black as being synonymous with the word white.

Socialism now and forever meant WORKER OWNERSHIP OF THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION. Socialism does indeed exist in America, they are called employee owned, as in employee stock ownership plans. Here is a list of the top 100.

The Employee Ownership 100: America's Largest Majority Employee-Owned Companies

Communism as defined by Karl Marx is and has always been defined was a state wherein THE STATE ceases to exist, and workers own and reap all the benefits of the work that they produce. Which should appeal to most of you who are so antagonistic to the existence of government.

Here's the cliffnote version of Das Kapital

Communism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If anything what is emerging in the United States would be where capital controls not only the means of production but the state itself. Now if we live in a socialist state or anything that is a close facsimile then I desperately would love for someone to explain to me how the banks, and Wall St, have been allowed to continue to do the same exact things that led up to the financial disaster of 2007. I would love someone to explain to me how profits continue to soar at a rate commensurate with the decline in the income of the average American worker? Anyone with a grasp of economic terminology?
Spot on.
What we have is fascism.

The power of the average worker is declining and all the power is going to the fascists at the top
Government + Wall Street + Multinational Corporations = In Bed together = Fascism
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Old 12-15-2013, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Montreal, Quebec
15,080 posts, read 14,327,358 times
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Quote:

Another example of a socialist program is Canada's healthcare system.
Proponents argue that it provides free healthcare to those who would otherwise
be uninsured or underinsured. But the grass isn't always greener on the other
side. Canada's free healthcare system often delays important medical procedures
and treatments simply because it doesn't have the manpower, space and time to
handle them. One highly publicized example of this untimely delay is the case of
identical quadruplets born in Montana. The quadruplets had to be delivered in
Great Falls because no hospital in the entirety of Canada, where their parents
reside, could handle their delivery.
What is this "FREE" healthcare you speak of? Do you think the Healthcare Fairy waves her magic wand and all the medical bills are paid? Canadians PAY for their healthcare via taxes.
And just to hammer a point home, one more time with feeling, the hospital was perfectly capable of handling the delivery of those quads. Other babies didn't feel like waiting and put in a very early appearance, so there were no beds in the neo-natal unit. It would make sense to fly a woman in high-risk labour just across the border than to fly her across the country.
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Old 12-15-2013, 04:25 PM
 
14,022 posts, read 15,028,594 times
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Just saying a country without a welfare system ends up with people like Hitler, Stalin, Robespierre, Cromwell, or Morsi in charge when the poor, staving masses rise up.
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Old 12-15-2013, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,016 posts, read 12,580,750 times
Reputation: 9030
Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy View Post
We had the same thing happen to us when travelling in Europe. It was either Belgium or The Netherlands where our Canadian health card was accepted for payment. Can't remember which one as it was a) my friend who was sick and b) very, very early in the morning when he had to seek treatment.
Never the less, any Canadian travelling out of the country should purchase travel health insurance for the time they are out of the country. Even Cuba is going to start requiring that tourists have medical insurance while visiting. If you arrive without it they will sell you a policy.
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Old 12-16-2013, 07:43 AM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,493,436 times
Reputation: 16962
Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy View Post
We had the same thing happen to us when travelling in Europe. It was either Belgium or The Netherlands where our Canadian health card was accepted for payment. Can't remember which one as it was a) my friend who was sick and b) very, very early in the morning when he had to seek treatment.
While attending any of the anniversaries of the Liberation of Holland, various invitees and their families over the years have experienced any number of medical events while being billeted all over the Netherlands and I would hazard most of those events have been dealt with through the basic individual Provincial universal health insurance without having to even access the optional purchased travel insurance.

My FIL experienced just such an occasion in the 1990's and upon enquiring, after his examination and prescribed treatment for a pulmonary infection, what the bill would be; he was simply told his provincial coverage had already authorized complete payment.

Quite a system when one thinks that the taxes paid in Canada results in your medical treatment in any foreign country being covered.

Of course Lucknow is correct to advise the purchase of optional, top-up, travel coverage, especially in these times where healthcare costs in other countries have risen. In the case of the U.S. in particular, they have spiralled completely out of control or any semblance of reality. Major unaccountable differences in treatment costs are being seen from county to county, never mind state to state within the U.S.
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Old 12-16-2013, 09:07 AM
 
Location: The analog world
17,077 posts, read 13,372,917 times
Reputation: 22904
Quote:
Originally Posted by weltschmerz View Post
Please don't lie.
The hospital where they were supposed to be delivered were perfectly capable of handling their delivery. All arrangements were in place, but there was an unexpected glut of unexpected and premature births at the time, and there weren't enough neonatal beds at the hospital.
Calgary woman delivers identical quadruplets

If we could handle delivering the Dionne quintuplets way back in 1934, we certainly can handle delivering four babies in 2013.
Beat me to it. Thank you.
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:44 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,054,795 times
Reputation: 15038
Quote:
Originally Posted by J746NEW View Post
Spot on.
What we have is fascism.
Crazies to the right me, crazies to the left of me...

No! We have neither. It is capitalism pure and simple. Marxist refer it as state monopoly capitalism but that is simply a redundancy. Free market capitalist eventually leads to the concentration and centralization of capital markets. The power of monopolistic enterprises naturally provides those enterprises with the money and power that goes with it to dominate government policies and as a result government becomes the servant, protector of those enterprises.
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Old 12-16-2013, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,016 posts, read 12,580,750 times
Reputation: 9030
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Crazies to the right me, crazies to the left of me...

No! We have neither. It is capitalism pure and simple. Marxist refer it as state monopoly capitalism but that is simply a redundancy. Free market capitalist eventually leads to the concentration and centralization of capital markets. The power of monopolistic enterprises naturally provides those enterprises with the money and power that goes with it to dominate government policies and as a result government becomes the servant, protector of those enterprises.
That is precisely why the country has the anti trust laws it has. Too bad the DOJ lacks the guts to "Bust trusts" the way my favorite conservative of all times Theodore Roosevelt did.
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