Girl dies after pharmacist refuses to give EpiPen without prescription (Chicago, spend)

[armory]

Originally Posted by borregokid

This could have just as easily happened here in the US. One of the problems is that almost all medicine for asthma is only available by prescription. Here in the US though its worse than Ireland. People have to pay as much as 3x as much for prescription medicine. Stuff like this should be available over the counter. The Tea Party types though are oblivious to the cost of medicine though thanks to Medicare. Any attempt to control the cost of medicine is socialism and that bad...very bad.
Does anyone really think the Tea Party types want to lower the cost of health care or make it more accessible? Not on their Medicare supported gubbermint lives...lol

Do we really have time for your prepubescent nonsense?

[armory]

Originally Posted by Hyperthetic

I'd like to see her and her parents' vaccination history.

They say that vaccines can sabotage judgement, and cause strange allergies.

More likely teratogenic than genetic.

I am with you all the way on this one. Doctors also gave pregnant mothers in the 60s-70s Diethylstilbestrol which played havoc on my cousins. It is commonly known as DES and is a good read as you learn about a lot of side affects which is generational.

[rbohm]

Originally Posted by whogo

I am suggesting that there are bad laws and at times even good laws that situations may require a man with any since of morality to disobey them and throw himself at the mercy of the court if need be.

The epipen can be purchased without a prescription in Canada. For once I will suggest the US and UK take Canada's lead.

What we had here was the perfect storm of stupid, a stupid girl, a stupid mother, a stupid pharmacist and a stupid law.

ok one more time, the pharmacist NEVER SAW THE GIRL, thus he could not have made a decision to dispense an emergency epipen. this too is part of the law.

Originally Posted by Hyperthetic

A defibrillator is for emergency use.

true, but there again they are designed for use in the hands of someone who is trained in using such a device.

An epi-pen is for emergency use.

again true, but the person dispensing the pen needs to actually SEE the person that needs SEE the person in question to determine if such an emergency exists, and thus dispense the pen.

There has never been a recorded case of epi-pen abuse.

that may be true, but the law is the law, and if the law requires that the epipen be dispensed by prescription only, then so be it. dont like the law? work to change it.;

Anyone who asks for one should not be presumed by the State to be an abuser, or to not know whether it is right for him or her.

any medication that is regulated is done so for a reason. but there again, if you dont like a particular law, work to change it.

The pharmacist was a fear driven zombie of immense stupidity.

no he was driven by the laws in his area. there again if he had actually saw the girl in distress, he likely would have dispensed the pen as needed. but again the girl was left outside and only the mother went into the store. thus since he saw no immediate emergency, he could not by law dispense the pen without a prescription.

Originally Posted by Hyperthetic

Epi-pens are serious instruments.

The woman had a distressed demeanor.

The pharmacist wasn't bothered by HER problems, as he was a professional, requiring the discipline of a cool head, as defined by indifference to his patrons.

The laws are not in place to protect people; they are there to protect persons, from people.

well said.

Originally Posted by Lucidkitty

Yes they do. You know nothing of legal matters if you believe that. Many a doctor has been successfully sued for following the rules in which someone died. In the end it's about who is going to look more sympathetic to a jury. The family of dead young girl or a simple minded doctor who let a girl die in front of him because she wasn't following the bureaucratic rules of his Country?

there again, the pharmacist never saw the girl she was outside the store, as such the pharmacist had no obligation to dispense a pen to someone without a prescription. the jury is going to hear that bit of evidence, and tell mom that you screwed up and let your daughter die, not the pharmacist.

[Hyperthetic]

Zombies lack curiosity, even professional curiosity, if pharmacists were even allowed such a thing.

Even the dumbest security guard would have asked, "What do want with an Epi-Pen?"

A pharmacist wouldn't ask - because, he does not want to know!

Willful ignorance is a learned discipline, that pays a handsome salary.

[whogo]

Originally Posted by rbohm

ok one more time, the pharmacist NEVER SAW THE GIRL.

Maybe he should have made the effort to see her. He should have been bright enough to understand that when someone is requesting an epipen a life may be at stake.

Why did all them rights protestors in the '60s go to jail?

[Hyperthetic]

Originally Posted by whogo

Maybe he should have made the effort to see her. He should have been bright enough to understand that when someone is requesting an epipen a life may be at stake.

I'd be surprised if that pharmacist would sell a Snickers Bar to a diabetic without a prescription.

Non diabetics, over the counter.

Diabetics - Only By Prescription!

I used to buy potassium chloride at the grocery store, still do.

One day, while at a pharmacy, I asked to buy potassium chloride, and was told I'd need a prescription for it. I told him I could buy it at a grocery store without a prescription, and, basically, he told me that a drugstore is not a grocery store.

[hammertime33]

Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk

So, since this was a year ago, what's been the outcome?

She's still dead

[whogo]

Originally Posted by hammertime33

She's still dead

Thanks for the update.

[charolastra00]

Originally Posted by whogo

Maybe he should have made the effort to see her. He should have been bright enough to understand that when someone is requesting an epipen a life may be at stake.

Why is that the automatic assumption?

I would also assume that both the 14 year old teenager and her mother would never leave the home without an epi pen each. I would assume that a 14 year old is bright enough to not eat food labeled with a known allergen. I would assume the mother would bring the food allergy to the restaurant's attention before they began eating. I would also assume that the second the allergy was apparent, the mother would call the Irish version of 911. None of those things happened, which is astounding to me.

I have cousins and friends' children with peanut allergies. I get the procedural run down every time I babysit, take them out for ice cream, or even just down the street to the park. If an allergen is accidentally ingested, use the epi AND call 911 because the epi will only put the reaction on hold. It is a medical emergency even with the epi. Give the epi the second the allergen is ingested because the longer you wait, the less of a chance of survival. By 5, they're carrying their own epi when not at school, but I'm always given an extra just in case. My 5 year old cousin knows to tell the waiter or whoever is giving her food that she has a food allergy before I say a word. This is basic procedure.

Lots of people know the word "epipen." I've heard people say they need one when their tongue gets scratchy due to a mild allergy. Nope. The pharmacist could have had no idea what was happening.

[burdell]

Originally Posted by burdell

Some reactions progress so quickly there's no time for an ambulance/hospital to affect the outcome.

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

but there was time to go to the drug store and leave your kid unattended outside.......hmmmm

Originally Posted by HappyTexan

Were they having lunch in the drug store ?

Given the article states they were having lunch "round the corner" from the pharmacy and a passing doctor, ambulance staff, and firefighters were unable to revive the girl I'd say the reaction did progress too quickly for ambulance/hospital staff to affect the outcome.