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There was a SWAT situation in Los Angeles yesterday. A real nutjob who's girlfriend had a restraining order against him, parks himself outside of her home with a long rifle and ammo in his car. Cops came and it became a car chase, then the joker jumps out of his car and runs through a neighborhood, finds a house and goes inside. Stand off for 3 hours. 10 schools on lockdown and a few evacuated.
Luckily nobody was shot.
I'm sick of nuts having so much easy access to firearms. But a gun on its own never killed anybody, it takes a nutjob to use a gun to kill somebody. And they don't even need to use a gun, could be any weapon.
Until society does something about the Mentally Ill, this will continue.
Nobody wants to address the real problem, and that's mental illness.
So figure out a solution to the mental health issues in this country. That is where the problem lies.
.
So what do you think we should do about mental health? If one person has an inkling that another is dangerous, lock them up? Take away that persons right to own guns (about half the gun lovers on this forum are probably ill under some criteria..paranoia being the most common one.)...or lock them up? Which right is more important, non-lunatic peoples rights to not be shot down or have their children be shot down, or non-lunatic peoplel who happen to worship and fetishize guns having unfettered access to an arsenal?
..in the paranoid, mentally stunted fevered imaginations of gun fanatics, where the world is the wild west and the answer to all your problems is the omni-present spectre of LETHAL FORCE!!!
Really now? Some people just can't seem to get past this image of gun owners and those who carry as prancing about with a double twist draw like Hickock and slobbering for a gunfight. The reality is you probably pass by armed citizens every day and don't even know it. Its not like we advertise. Least ways I don't. Even with open carry its not like folks are shooting it out over parking spots.
For a lot of us, its not the "spectre" of the lethal force at our disposal that pervades our minds. It's the spectre of criminal violence. That has happened to us. My weapons are there. Lethal and non lethal, most of the time. You won't see them, I don't reach whenever someone bumps into me, and I will smile and apologize to some DB who is spitting in my face over a place in line and let them have it if it be so important to them.
Most of my friends and such carry as well, and none of us has any aspirations of being Johnny Ringo. Yet, we are called out as such in "discussions" such as this. All the time. Look, if ever you or someone you love gets attacked, then come and talk to me.You tell me, then, about a Deadwood mentality. Because its just NOT like that.
There was a SWAT situation in Los Angeles yesterday. A real nutjob who's girlfriend had a restraining order against him, parks himself outside of her home with a long rifle and ammo in his car. Cops came and it became a car chase, then the joker jumps out of his car and runs through a neighborhood, finds a house and goes inside. Stand off for 3 hours. 10 schools on lockdown and a few evacuated.
Luckily nobody was shot.
I'm sick of nuts having so much easy access to firearms. But a gun on its own never killed anybody, it takes a nutjob to use a gun to kill somebody. And they don't even need to use a gun, could be any weapon.
Until society does something about the Mentally Ill, this will continue.
Nobody wants to address the real problem, and that's mental illness.
And there's no question of degree of ease in the killing between a gun, a knife, and a pencil right?
The real problem is menally ill, criminals, and psychotic people having easy access to weapons. They have easy access to weapons because everybody has easy access to them and the country is friggin flooded with them.
Where did he get the trigger? How? Why does that person think it's cool to use a trigger? Why does that person think killing with guns solves his or her problems? Why does that person think guns make an excellent statement?
Oh, wait, let me guess … it's not the gun culture, it's Obama and Democrats, right?
where did i blame obama and the democrats? the fact is i didnt. i blame the person that pulled the trigger. i dont know where he got the idea that it is somehow fun to kill people with a weapon of any kind. all i am saying is lets place the blame where it belongs, on the person that pulled the trigger, and no where else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72
These arguments have been hashed out so many times but the same parrotted NRA records skips on and on.
A car is designed to transport people.
A gun is designed to kill things.
and yet a car can be just as efficient a killing machine as a firearm, and that has been proven over and over again. and both are inanimate objects that require a human agency to operate, but you would rather blame the gun than the human agency, as if the gun told the human, pull my trigger and kill these people you can do it, it will be fun. you crack me up with your gun grabbing brainwashing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa
How many more times do we have to see the terrified faces of our children being lead from their schools,their schools for Godsake, with their hands in the air, or grieving widows, mothers, fathers, and children who lost a parent, or car washes for the dead, communities swept up in disbelief and grief, before we put an end to the insanity of guns, guns, guns everywhere and the inevitable carnage it leads to. The right of the people to keep and bear arms has to take a back seat to the right of the people to live without fear as they go about their lives. How many have to die before this anachronistic 2nd Amendment gets repealed, we enact sensible gun legislation, and we put this terrible chapter of our history behind us?
eliminating the second amendment is not going to do a damn thing except increase the number of school shootings, because the criminals are not going to go through channels to get their guns. even if we eliminated all the guns from the US, the criminals would smuggle them in from other countries, or kill cops and steal guns from them. imagine a more powerful cartel than the drug cartels, in fact the drug cartels would become gun runners as well as drug runners because the money they would make would be huge.
lets start with the mental heath problems in this country instead. then lets deal with the anger issues in this country, addressing those two problems alone would cut down on the numbers of gun violence.
I'll spell it out later when there is time. Look to Sweden and Switzerland as case studies. Both nations have a lot of gun ownership and a fraction of our per capita homicide rates - guns or otherwise. While they have cases of violence as well, instances of crazies shooting up public venues are much less frequent.
And they have gun control laws that would make an American conservative squeal like a girl.
They also have a culture that is not as prone to glorification of violence and extreme hard-edged "every man is an island and must fight to survive" individualism. That kinda helps as well.
How about the children are they all doped up on Ritalin like that is prevalent with U S children ? How about mental health issues as a whole? do you have the percentages that might show that those 2 countries have less people dealing with mental health issues? Do you think mental health is the driving force of these shootings or the availability of the guns?
Let's all place bets on where these will happen next - these school shootings and mass murders from gun totting loonies happen everyday in the US now.
Whoever guesses correctly wins a prize!
Since I have a sick sense of humor and I love making predictions I will guess.
The west coast has been full of recent shootings I say it swings out to the east for the next one.
Providence, RI or Scranton, Pa.
Really now? Some people just can't seem to get past this image of gun owners and those who carry as prancing about with a double twist draw like Hickock and slobbering for a gunfight. The reality is you probably pass by armed citizens every day and don't even know it. Its not like we advertise. Least ways I don't. Even with open carry its not like folks are shooting it out over parking spots.
For a lot of us, its not the "spectre" of the lethal force at our disposal that pervades our minds. It's the spectre of criminal violence. That has happened to us. My weapons are there. Lethal and non lethal, most of the time. You won't see them, I don't reach whenever someone bumps into me, and I will smile and apologize to some DB who is spitting in my face over a place in line and let them have it if it be so important to them.
Most of my friends and such carry as well, and none of us has any aspirations of being Johnny Ringo. Yet, we are called out as such in "discussions" such as this. All the time. Look, if ever you or someone you love gets attacked, then come and talk to me.You tell me, then, about a Deadwood mentality. Because its just NOT like that.
I live on Long Island in NY...I'm pretty sure the only guys I know walking around with guns are the cops on my block. We have laws here against them, and most grown ups don't see the government sanctioned black helicopter coming to take away their freedoms.
You see, far fewer people walk around with this paranoia 24 hours a day here. Yeah, we have a few losers driving around with "don't tread on me" flags in their pickups who stick out like sore thumbs, but people laugh at them like the childish fools that they are.
This is what prosperity and education breeds....a majority of people who see the obsession with weapons as delusional, paranoid, and childish. They realize that the gun nuts vision of America is absurd and twisted, and that is starting to play out more and more with these incidents. Yeah, a gun is the "same thing as a car!!"
So what do you think we should do about mental health? If one person has an inkling that another is dangerous, lock them up? Take away that persons right to own guns (about half the gun lovers on this forum are probably ill under some criteria..paranoia being the most common one.)...or lock them up? Which right is more important, non-lunatic peoples rights to not be shot down or have their children be shot down, or non-lunatic peoplel who happen to worship and fetishize guns having unfettered access to an arsenal?
The majority of gun owners that I know have them for hunting.
The sad fact of the matter is that the vast majority of shootings are urban and gang related. These are proven to be preventable by instituting tough anti-gang measures and spending money on diversion programs and other youth initiatives.
In short, you have taken the political route and are trying to demonize what is a tiny part of the overall problem by going after what is a majority of law abiding legal gun owners. Meanwhile, you ignore the bulk of the issue which involves gangs and urban areas.
Why is that? Politics, not any real concern over the actual problem.
P.S. The actions I describe require no constitutional amendment, just effort. It's just doesn't have the political usefulness, really...reminds me of the McCarthy trials at some point where is the shame over the politicizing of "sexy shootings".
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